KMD Digital Journalism 2010

Is there a UStream show tonight?

good early morning all

(or whatever your time of the day is)

morning

it's 01:50 here...

yup, same here

good mornin

same here

hah, where are you guys?

ljubljana, slovenia

cool :)

i'm sooo happy i went out for a beer

cause i'm not sleepy now

hey all

slovenia

awesome

SA

i'm in berlin. watched the world cup, had beer, sleepy.

hi Joi

whoa, south africa?

yeah, turned out the octopuss was right

yes. No tickets to the final though

ah, that's too bad :)

Saw Spain and Netherlands play in the group stages

nice!

hey andrew

this is the class chat space

hey joi

if you could keep an eye out for comments and questions here

got it. good to know fat gary is in the house!

Good morning

OK

I'll start the class then I'll hand it over to Andrew

Yushi, can you get UStream started?

yup just started it right now

So Andrew Morse, Dow Jones Newswires bureau chief in San Francisco

on

hi everybody

good morning team

let's use the world cup enthusiasm and channel into this class

man, i need some sleep!

Andrew, you said "I don't think there's a crisis in journalism, just a crisis for journalists"

can you maybe start with a self intro

and then explain what you meant by that

and tell us a bit about where you think things are going

I knew the parakeet was a fake

janak, I think Andrew is reading IRC

just make sure he's check in here too

you don't need to parrot it

sounds good

and you said "I don't think there's a crisis in journalism, just a crisis for journalists"

can you tell us what you mean by this?

he is here

tell him it's the web chat

he is here

web chat

sorry for the confusion

hai guise

hello

hello to everyone

so net-net, you think that the quality of journalism in aggregate is better?

now

that's something i've found disturbing: the worse media/journalism industry becomes, the more well informed the public seems to be

than before the Internet?

because I think some would argue that we're losing a lot of investigative journalism

yeah, sorry, there is a lag from ustream

I think a lot of the big media companies are firing lots of people

sorry, can someone paste the ustream URL here? thx

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/kmd-p2pu-digital-journalism

well, it's been accelerated by media consolidation moreso

so it's the "commercialization" of journalism as "content"?

IE journo as a business model that is causing some of the degradation of "professional"journalism?

Big business taking over media looks only at bottom line, investigative journalism is expensive and not goof ROI

do you think that "amateur" journalism will get better and maybe even take the place of some of the "hole"?

one thing that we often wonder

is whether you can do investigative journalism

without the physical and legal protections

i disagree, fwiw. again, i think it has more to do with the effects of consolidation: lindsey lohan doesn't offend anyone per se, so media companies searching broadest appeal got hat direction

of a media company

many media cos are only worried about pageviews

are you as a professional journalist

using a lot of the online sources

or journalists in your work

I guess how do they interact with you

do you see them as budding journalists for your companies?

and/or colleagues?

so you're sort of a amplifier and aggregator

;-)

where would you look for new journalists to recruit?

would you look in j-schools or online?

good question

I think you read that story about Octavia from the CNN - she got fired for a tweet that she made. Do think that social media creates new challenges and opportunities for journalists?

So lets say the WSJ has a job opening for a journalist, does someone whos been writing for a news blog sucessfully have a better or worse chance than a j-school grad? Or does that not matter at all?

for instance, you've said that you don't really want a web presence, is it that you don't want to be scruitinized?

Does the importance of a journalist's personality (as a factor in the whole process) increase or decrease in the digital age?

interesting

I guess Dan Gillmor talks about the future of journalism as moving to "a conversation"

wouldn't you say that maybe talking is sort of a new "form"

and ignoring those who do it just for ego

don't you think that maybe journalists should be allowed to be "talked to"?

in a conversational voice?

heh

so you believe in "neutral point of view" for jounalists?

Hi all. Would say some orgs seem to hire virtually, especially if they're virtual shops. Example: ReadWriteWeb: http://bit.ly/bvodYF

Do you think the media in Japan "functional"?

or different substantially from the US?

So, which model is gaining ground:

The rather openly biased approach of newspapers

or the wannabe neutral one of public broadcasters?

do you see your job evolving with new media?

(you can answer any of the questions)

;-)

yup

so you are generally optimistic

when will the business press start covering interest on excess reserves? They are new October 2008 with the bailout bill, and caused the baltic dry index to plumet to 2% of previous levels. Paying banks to refrain from lending is a huge problem (see http://bit.ly/econFail for more info) but why doesn't it get press?

that good news organizations will surive

and I guess my question is how they will change

but wasn't that a result of media consolidation?

that started long before the net

but there will probably be fewer pros

soon right?

(the loss of newspapers)

I wonder what they're all going to do

do you think a new online journo biz model will form?

to allow semi-pro's to earn a living?

+1 to paying journalists

not sure about publications, do they = record labels?

Do stories ever come back to haunt you years later? What I write on the internet (blog) lasts forever- I'm reporting on my own view point - there is no editor - wholly responsible for mistakes.

What do you suggest takes place of training from experienced journalists on the job?

No I can't

Re: "I wonder what they're all going to do." Some of its generational, I think. Back in the day, they moved on to books, mags, PR. teaching. This time around, the Boomers have had no healthy other industry to go to. Internet has not sustained most of them so far.

interest on excess reserves is paying banks to not lend -- why doesn't that get press? It's the most regressive wealth redistribution in 300 years of the commercial paper market

are we going to see rather lose but profitable cooperations of freelancers?

Like digital editorial groups but w/o the boundaries of a news corp?

Question for quinn: Do you see any hope in the new "B" corporations or L3C low profit corporations?

Hey andrew, I know you had to go at 5:30PM

I wonder if you had any last thoughts

as in journalism as a small business?

and apologies for this clunky technology

;-)

Thanks Andrew! (It's Lisa K)

Thanks Andrew

Thanks!

thx

hi!

ok... so the next part

Part Deux

Andriak: we're seeing a strange emerging middle class in music, with things like bands that tour with house concerts, something no one predicted. i think likewise the models (and there will be many) will be hard to predict, from publication to patronage, and a bit of everything tried

Lisa, are you OK to do some thing about the assignment?

Is everyone in class here?

Thanks, quinn.

yeah

andriak: i think in the end it looks like a chaotic and uncomfortable hodge-podge, instead of a single monolithic model that replaces the last monolithic model

I made a tiny little presentation video on my project. It's not much

I don't have a video camera

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKvoPWS48KI

For my part, maybe people can post their experience here.

hey

we're going to switch to IRC

as the main mode for this part

until we're ready to make Lisa get on video

ok switching to IRC

switched

Hello, it's Rich.

I think this is a better many-to-many mode than video when the class is so small

I made a tiny little presentation video on my project. It's not much. I don't have a video camera http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKvoPWS48KI

Gary I like the video

http://p2pu.org/node/3838/forums/4381

here's lisa's assignment on the forums:

watching skinny fatgary now

Cute, skinnygary.

maybe put a link to your blog in the comments or the description? (or maybe I missed it)

Can you guys post a link to each of your blogs here now so we can all look at them?

good tip Joi. Going to do that now

The thing that troubles me with online identity is its permanance and its singularity. I act differently when I'm with my parents to when I'm with my friends. The internet just flattens that out

Laurian has been coding for our "parallel news" project

how so?

but I didn't yet find the time to contribute to it

(last q to fatgary)

sorry guys

They called it "collapsing context"

Mine: http://globalvue.wordpress.com plus the "About Me" page, which is one of the hardest things to write but worthwhile long term: http://globalvue.wordpress.com/about-me/

got bounced from my internet connection

not a good morning for technology

I'm a bit stuck within which APIs to use, now I struggle with AlchemyAPI.com, but I believe I'll fall back to Reuter's OpenCalais /cc jhweitzmann

http://www.moodlenews.com <-- platform specific edtech blog

www.e-taalim.com

Note: The "About Me" page was a requirement from a UNC instructor a couple of years back. Always requires updating and revising.

has anyone had a bad experience with their online identity, or are you generally happy with yours?

The only "problem" I have

is sometimes feeling that I shouldn't be posting about X

even if it's elsewhere online

x being... ?

http://richardjsmart.blogspot.com/ and http://tokyodigital.wordpress.com/ is kind of the combined work I've been doing.

I never feel fully satisfied.

I'm generally happy with my online identity

do profiles @ LinkedIn also count as online identities in that sense?

depleted uranium?

always tweaking

profile@linkedin are part of your online identity

Couple years back, I called someone's site one of the worst on the Internet. Creator attacked me verbally, online, and his posts are still visible if one digs now. So yeah, it requires a very thick skin and the ability to respond diplomatically to criticism (especially if one gives criticism.)

but it's a very professional identity

blogging gave me more credibility and notoriety

for example, posting content that's from behind a walled garden site

Andriak: yup, thick skin really helps

especially after creating pages in social media

yeah, I got banned from wikipedia over depleted uranium, it's all in the article history if you're interested. Technically I'm still banned, but they aren't as agressive about enforcing it since I was proven right in the peer reviewed secondary medical literature

Joi, Think skin not only helps, it's pretty much a requirement

facebook, twitter and linked in

I think that might be the case for all journalism.

thick skin

but I think it's more of a requirement, at least online, if you're allowing comments or reading feedback

I think it's more important online.

indeed, if you are putting yourself out there you need to be able to deal with people reacting to that

Should we keep our personal lives separated. Like having 2 blogs, 2 twitters, 2 everything? Or keeping just one and showing yourself to the world would give you more credibility?

many journalists without a byline don't really see what people think

Gustavo__: it's a hard question. It's more economical to lead one life

because the platform you have as as journalist is virtual

Does that allow them to write better news

?

but your life will get rather boring or very complicated to manage ;-)

and harder to distinguish from readers

fatgary: I don't think so

but I should say that Wikipedia is an excellent place for journalists to summarize their work after it's been published. The only real problem they have anymore is with cold fusion, which is more of a historical quirk, and I'm sure that will work out in the next couple years

thank you. =)

I'd say anything about you that shows up in a Google search counts. That includes LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter.

yes i agree with you joi

for me, regarding the professional identity: No real problems yet

regarding private ones: I only have fakes

Gustavo, I don't think that works because then you risk people "discovering" the second identiy. Just have one and have it be things you are comfortable with anyone seeing

i'm for only one identity

I have a 2nd twitter identity

if you leave a relatively legal and "suitable for TV" life

it's much easier to have one identity I think

but I think it's important to have another one distinct from my personal account because my 2nd is connected to my blog

true

it gives you a lot of power over slander and criticism too

because you have a voice in the discussion about yourself

I guess I don't live a "suitable for TV life"...

which I view as bigger than just me (the twitter account belongs to the blog, not me)

It's already difficult to deal with your real identity.

offline and on?

and facebook photos are the beginning of the creation of your pubic identity by others

like when I search for Yushi, I only find images that are totally not like what he's like when he's doing business ;-)

lol

I know a couple of Twitter folk who have anonymous personas where they gripe about their work. Some day, it might haunt them. The person who personally attacked me tracked down where I worked, mentioned it, even though it was separate from my criticism of him. That's not a good thing, makes one much more cautious online. The link: http://cxliv.org/2007/10/18/is_this_the_least_sustainable_site_on_the_in...

I think in general making more secrets to hide other secrets is a bad idea

after the recent "climategate" scandal resolved with the implicated researchers exonerated, editing climate change articles on wikipedia has been much less contentious (the "pending revisions" enhancement helps a lot too) for example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_mitigation looks a thousand times better than it did a few weeks ago before the "scandal" resolved

There is an interesting (and I may be shouldn't talk about it) debate going on at the Japan Times at the moment:

note my accounts are not secret from each other or the www

I just feel that blogging and tweeting which used to be a way to communicate with my friends and family lost this function.

it's not secrets. It's context.

They gave themselves a prominent Twitter presence and now encounter a lot of criticism.

Andriak: that was a sort of provocative assignment you got in your class ;-)

I'm scared of Skynet.

And they have not yet figured out how to deal with it, or whether it is a good or bad thing.

interesting

what is skynet?

@Joi Uh, yes. Note to teachers: Never ask your students to say bad things about other people online.e

@Gustavo__ i agree, look at how it is used at kmd

jhweitzmann: skynet the supercomputer that attacked the humanity in Terminator

skynet is the fictional AI network from the "Terminator" sci-fi franchise which wakes up and starts killing people

oh, that one :)

like twitter 2.0

when AI wakes up I predict it will be more likely to prank order people pizzas than kill them

jhweitzmann: also the UK military communication satelites are named the same :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skynet_(satellites)

Conscience is the inner voice which warns us that someone may be looking. - HL Mencken

Great Youtube piece about the conflict in having personality and being "objective" here, dug up first that I saw by @stevebuttry: Traditional editor explains new media challenges to new staff member: http://bit.ly/bf1wRo

re private online identity: You almost have to be present on Facebook f.e. to be part of society today

all my facebook friends are real friends who know who the person behind the profile really is

that worked fine so far

do you?

@joi: we have less than 30minutes, shouls we move on to lisa soon?

yeah, lisa, are you here?

hi

I'm here

Re: Facebook. I'm in the middle generation, between a native and a 70something. I've seen the native quickly delete incriminating party photos that I didn't need to see, and I've seen the 70something struggle with the Skynet concept. The 70somethings remember mcCarthy era in the U.S.

do you want to talk a bit about your assignment and maybe about how you manage your identity?

you do a pretty good job

ok

and maybe tie it to being a journalist

and about your voice

skype?

yeah, skype to janak and we'll listen on ustream

yes

i sent u a request earlier

the id is basmati

ok one sec

This is the url to my blog: http://www.tokyoarab.blogspot.com/ I wrote my first post yesterday. Please feel free to comment.

That youtube video is great Andriak

Egyptians in Yokohama! neat!

cool Hala

my dad taught school in Yokohama for 7 years in the '70s

@skinnygary Indeed. Wish I could write that humorously (anonymously).

(5th graders, if I remember correctly)

Hala, do you have a Twitter name?

:)

I don't use Twitter much but it's Hala Eldemellawy

@Hala Pretty. Simple.

Lisa, you went to journalism school right?

Can everyone hear Lisa? Joeythibault: http://www.moodlenews.com/?s=gift is very cool -- trying to get Wikiversity to do http://microformats.org/wiki/gift please help if you want to

I can hear Lisa

me too, I just tweeted that I am watching & listening :D

@Lisa: But is it really necessary to intertwine your personal (online) life with your professional one?

I doubt that

accountability = spectacular; I wish everyone strove for it

@jhweitzmann I don't think it's necessary, but you can provide context that might help people understand your point of view

my linkedin is out of date too

@Joi: True, but at quite a high price

I guess

I think it's a farce to think you can seperate your personal and private lives. Online or off.

Look at how much media is dedicated to digging up private info on people

@jhweitzmann Perhaps that's why folks tweet about food so much. Neutral territory, generally.

jsalsman thanks - any formats that open education are AOK with me. it's all about content liberation

you only get to be one person

different context is fine, but identity is only one

what Lisa describes sounds like a very filtered identity

with virtual telepresence you can be different people at different places at different times; use "secondlife --multiple" and try to interview yourself, it's fun

it's not filtered, it's sorted

i tought internet was the place where you can have multiple identities

@Lisa: "Different parts of the Internet see different parts of me." Love that.

do you find that the internet and broadband 24/7 connectivity make it easier for you to reprt on japan from the states? or, reporting remotely in general? many old school journos say being in the "field" is very imortant?

I think you have one identity, several "identifiers" and varies facets in different contexts

true!

Lena, are you saying every girl online is a dude and an FBI agent

?

haha no

it goes without saying, i thought?

do you think it's different for girls?

than for guys?

it just gives you the opportunity to present yourself as something that you want to be but you aren't necessarily IRL

what about time management. How much time should be spent everyday on blogs and twitter to build your identity?

@lisa i was going to ask if blogging online is profitable, but you mentioned you have a roommate (kind answers my ques.) <--jk

do you find that the internet and broadband 24/7 connectivity make it easier for you to reprt on japan from the states? or, reporting remotely in general? many old school journos say being in the "field" is very imortant?

Lena, sure, but that is the same thing for any "public personal" and you should never assume people can't attach that to the real you.

@Lisa: Good question from Joi on gender. Are younger women more cautious or less cautious online? And are women more cautious than men or less so?

Guys think there are gender issues in blogging, Girls don't really.

;-)

@seanbonner agree, hmm i was speaking more from the psychological point of view, not journalist :/

would things be better if men and women were treated more equally online?

jsalsman you say that as if they aren't

I think they are

it's always a spectrum

more so than offline

I won a "top women bloggers" listing

always room for improvement, and always ways to lose progress

I wonder what the Twitter character @feministhulk thinks about this. :)

@joi hahahaah

congratulations, joi:)

a case of mistaken gender identity

http://gothamist.com/2005/11/10/joi_ito_a_power.php

the original site was taken down

Joi: I recommend a wallet sized version in case you are ever asked for your feminist credentials

Hahahaha

www.rubiconproject.com/transparency

term of art: "ego surfing"

I think I read that in Wired

I still believe your actual identity is too holy a thing to use it for leverage on online presence

Yeah but you actually appear on the first page of a google search. I type in my name and I get bupkiss

"holy" as in full of holes?

it is something that I don't want to shift around

jhw, too holy? It's the only thing you have.

Imagine having the name John Smith. How the hell are you able to have an online identity?

use a middle name?

@fatgary That's why you have to write an "about me" page. :) For the Google juice.

You'll never be on the first couple of pages

@joi we need to wrap up the physical class soon. sorry to spoil the party

Rick Martin, as opposed to Ricky Martin, participates in this class. Hence the name 1Rick.

ok janak

yes, sorry lisa

thanks Lisa

yeah

also, we're skipping next week

@fatgary ;Nuther good point from fatgary. If you have the same name as many others, it's more difficult. Grab your domains before someone else does. My daughter will have this problems.

because it's a holidy

and we'll be back in 2 weeks

Did you like fatgary's presentation of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKvoPWS48KI ? I did. http://www.e-taalim.com/ looks excellent

so people can keep working on lisa's assignment

but lets focus a lot of energy on getting projects going

and participate in commments on each others

for final presentations of projects

thank you that was fun

if it will take longer to bring to fruition

is a synopsis ok?

or plan of action?

Thanks all, yes, fun.

thanks!

btw, sorry for the email spam (the one i sent today) but your answers are the crucial thing to our project

thx joi.