KMD Digital Journalism 2010

hello

hey everyone

let me know if anyone wants to talk about their projects on skype

we don't have anyone queued up

otherwise I'm going to talk a bit about online communities here with sean bonner

o hai

good morning

hey sean. just browsing metblogs for the first time. good stuff

Thanks!

Some cities are better than others

Hi all. Thunderstorms looming (again), but here for now.

Hi everyone

I'll be watching IRC

hello :-)

and stuff

Welcome everyone

Video working for everyone?

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

video is working, but foggy

for me it's the timezone (europe, it's 2am)

(ah it's a video feed of a projector screen)

Shared early thought on forums about real life classes done with remote classes at same time: diminishes engagement of real life students (based on a high school class my daughter had.)

good morning everyone

Heh. Early morning local time probably the biggest hurdle.

I know I was bad at early morning classes when I was in college.

yup, the report is almost done

I too think it was a good learning experience overall. I think this is how people will be communicating in the future.

Hi Quinn

hello

this still feels a little like early days of tv, when people worked fairly hard to stare at what was sometimes just a screen of mostly fuzz, and no one knew how it would work out.

Guest speakers were awesome. Have serious doubts anyone else could bring that kind of international diversity.

Yeah, I'm with Andriak on this one. Guest speakers is what made this class great.

actually there's somehting intrinsically interesting about this being more of a conversation than a traditional class, that's not to be overlooked

For links, perhaps bookmark links on delicious.com as 'p2p2journalism-class1'. Sort of 'show notes'

can feed them through the p2pu drupal platform

New learning management tool launched early July: nixty.com. Lovely design, but built so far for top down communication.

I wonder if there is a way to help the transition to the newer use of media/data dispersion?

afaik this is the 2nd iteration of courses on p2pu, and we learned a lot

irc needs streaming video :)

can you do that with an eggdrop?

:)

is this channel going to be logged with the class materials?

quinn-n: this channel is logged

Don't say things like "shit" because people will know you said it later

hell.

Darn

this log will end up on the p2pu journalism forum

I do wish I'd known about the class sooner than I did, alas.

Food works to make people show up too. :)

Andriak: online we can hand over only browser cookies

or pictures of food.

Darn.

ehm, who is the person in the room with Joi? i was a bit late for the course..

laurian: which is like food, except it gives you privacy violations instead of calories.

Can we send food out over IRC?

Andriak: we should make a deal with Pizza Hut or some international chain, and on the IRC during the class we'll give voucher codes

seanbonner: someone page dan kaminsky! maybe he can tunnel it over dns.

@Laurian: Win. Big win.

p2pu + McDonalds, if you are online at McDonalds on a p2pu course you get a meal for free :)

wish i could come :)

Just saw Goldie check in to whole foods - how are you here and at whole foods?

lol I checked in as I was leaving.

Second Life?

i think you need to build in some acknowledgement of this being an asynchronous learning environment

Totally vote that real life physical, local meetups over food/drinks help strengthen community. Lots of talk of coffee shops and journalism and crowdsourcing going together.

I like that idea.

....Online News Association trying more local meetups. Associations that will survive will do that.

or get an airline as sponsor and have an end of course meeting, all the students in one city (dreaming)

i think that might only work if it was more massive, and yeah, persistant

If you made it a persistent community, perhaps there could be a corresponding media site/platform for students to practice their craft and accumulate samples.

It's the idea of continually growing rather than starting and ending

...er, I need to study some French and study for the GRE next...but I'd love to find a way to stay in touch. (Twitter lists work for that.)

it needs to be able to survive waxing and waning, but if it's ok to go fallow on occasion, without a sense that it's failing during waning, it's more likely to institutionalize

Persistent does provide a base community that people would join as they joined a new class.

this is a false dichotomy- this class is an instantiation of hectic global conversation, and i think being persistent acknowledges that, but a class that begins and ends inside of it works well to feed into that conversation

"let's have it both ways"

:)

:D

How do you bring a newcomer to the multi-slice communication style? How did the students who were initially overwhelmed by the email do the transition?

<3 the IRC now for immediate chat, because it's in a bit of a walled garden instead of broadcast to big audience on Twitter. I'd love to find a way to do some specific online journalism teaching in the future...might drag in some photography buddies, but they'd need some real life classes to bring home the work.

the way pre aol septembers infused new blood into the net...

So the persistent community would help bring the newer people in perhaps?

JoiIto: what about Second Life?

i think that's a bit closed too

yeah

The learning curve for the UI is hard, unfortunately.

Second Life also requires a minimum amount of hardware that not everyone has.

(JoiIto: I might try Second life for the next cyberpunk class)

we could build something that piped together IM and irc

and/or a chat-forumy thing

onerick: agree, but it might be more immersive, and hopefully more engaging

there's libs that do that. and for that matter, probably put it in mutt. you can make the modes invisible to the users though

There are bridges that let you do chat & video across to the web with Second Life.

so: make it a cult, and use the classes as recuiting tools ;)

The physical classroom integration is a challenge. (We do RL/SL meetups for the Boulder Serious SL group - sometimes it is very rough.)

JoiIto: ocasional classes would be good, them are finite things in time, you can commit to a 4 week thing easier than joining an ongoing conversation with not visible outcome

(the SL stuff was more for Laurian)

actually, i think having it as a class across different unis would probably help.

Thing is, y'all have competition, including new online master's degrees from universities like the University of North Carolina. But it's hard to compete with @joi and his connections. Still, the online cutting edge folks in U.S. will mostly be drawn to World of Webcraft. Personal connections could draw in the most people.

Thanks seanbonner

why compete? why not approacha nd collaborate?

That is one of the good things about SL, your avatar gives people an idea of how you want to express yourself, it's like a visual mini bio

That's it, everyone needs to join World of warcraft and have classes in the Barrens ;)

Good idea on collaboration, especially on design. :)

way to exclude the alliance! humph

@joi, would u like to hear from Dore (registered) and Edy-san (not registered) @kmd?

hi, what do you think about crowdsourcing and digital journalism

(Actually mostly alliance, but I think barren's chat is the worst.)

the video creates events, and it needs events to coalesce around

totally agree on the overarching project

would confuse the hell out of people

confusing is good sometimes

:D

That would be very hard to follow.

And it wouldn

'

(but could be good)

confused as in can't find it til it's done confused

would not always have joi mojo pull

perhaps the class just needs a platform where people can work, so that students don't have to worry about creating one. Some j-students in Germany also did a world cup project, but there was a central place for it http://thisissouthafrica.de/

the one platform is a good idea also

guys, the reason I am on here is coz of joi's twitter post

I'm from south africa

Welcome!

thanks

so yes or no, who is into helping on the persistant overeaching project?

@megomars Hi. Crowdsourcing's a big question: Definitely worth exploring, especially with data dumps. Imagine how many people are examining the Wikileaks data dump right now about the U.S. and Afghann war.

From a Japan point of view, crowdsourcing can be great for translation too

yeah like txteagle

you know what this conversation needs? an idea of what the goal is

what are we trying to acomplish, joi, sean?

Good question.

It's just an experiment to see what happens and where it leads

What can come out of this?

Use a persistent tag for everything, wherever it is...Flickr etc....It could also serve a little like a "badge."

ok, so i think that suggests that we try all of this, but one thing at time, and stay with it when it doesn't look like it's working.

Is there a way to have the IRC match the hashtag?

i agree with Andriak, when the people really discovered the power of a tool like wiki leaks, we had a big noise, good noise for sure

it doesn't have to be the perfect tag, just picking one, whichever

There's a Duke U. person doing a fall seminar on elearning etc....will try to dig up her name and share. She was interested in P2PU's World of Webcraft, but she's asking the higher level questions that this course is.

@andriak @megomars about the crowdsourcing : i agree with Andriak, when the people really discovered the power of a tool like wiki leaks, we had a big noise, good noise for sure

tagged media feeds (flickr, youtube) can be aggregated on a central website. Would be nice.

I guess nobody want to mess with Google Wave :)

time

nope, this was a bot test

time

heh

time

laurian: google wha...? :)

I think this Ustream program rocks

Ustream really rocks!

this does eventually need a more unified ui. but it's really interesting to push the bounds of what we're tying to do with online collaboration, it suggests needs you wouldn't sit down and dream up without banging your head into the problems we've encountered directly

yeah you can embed google wave in mediawiki now, really works nicely with wikis

interesting

quinn-n: I was hoping for 3rd parties to come up with better Wave interfaces, the default Google one looks like 4chan

Quinn, that's exactly it, we're trying to be the ground zero for all these mistakes, we'll volunteer to make them so that everyone can learn and see what works and what doesn't.

wow, embed google wave in media wiki! I will try it after class

seanbonner: that makes me think we should be talking to someone like google about how they could build something that would be able to do this?

quinn-n: also the automatic translate bot in Google Wave can be very handy for classes

Re tools, Tools for News: http://toolkit.snd.org/ *re-post

The bonding was something I didn't felt.

sorry, party foul

Mission: To connect experienced journalists, wherever they might be in their diaspora, to the new practitioners of journalism, wherever they might be, to share knowledge, skills and techniques.

Can I talk about my project before the class is over?

Uh, that's a proposal.

quinn-n to answer your last question, yes, i think google and many others should fund us to try and solve it and provide a roadmap of what tools need to be built

well, who wants to approach them?

well, i think there's a value in having someone iterating along with us from a developer point of view

@joi, when we have a chance, Hala is ready w/her presentation

ok

Marhaba Hala

http://tokyoarab.blogspot.com/

I love your blog Hala!

yeah adding it to my RSS feeds

Blame IE

Hala, this is great!

Very good advice on telling stories. Great presentation, Hala.

personal connections are very important on blogs

Nice work

Very cool

great

Hala do u have a twitter account?

this was a really nice presentation

i had to miss a few minutes, so i apologize if this was answered, but why english?

agree with Joi!

I love that it's about your personal experience

http://twitter.com/halaeldemellawy

(hope it's ok to share that)

through your lens we get a better sense of a subculture

yeah, personal stories are much more compelling, and contextualize the topic much better than other approches.

inside looking out

following @halaeldemellawy

personal blogs generally get much less hateful comments than group blogs

Dore (aka Dorito) will be presenting from Tokyo in a few

people still remember that there's a human behind a personal blog.

Thanks everyone. I appreciate it!!

when people pee in my living room I ban them.

that's how you know someone on the internet is actually a dog

my and nadhir's project is not completely finished yet and not put on blog either, but here is the document http://www.scribd.com/doc/34844223/Covering-the-course-an-online-learnin...

@tokyomango hi tokyomango "personal blogs generally get much less hateful comments than group blogs" i'm curious why?

That rug really tied the room together

seanbonner: heheheh

Oooo, awesome idea. A "posse" to help with blog haters.

hi guys since we are sharing blogs here is mine http://megomars.vox.com/ (have some stuff about crowdsourcing, new media and my time in Turkey and Qatar)

yes, it's good to have backup

@gilmar: Partly, I think it's because a personal blog is not a known forum for heated discussions

commenters want to be noticed, too.

@joi: dore is going to present now

Yes, Joi. Thanks

I like the blog a lot Hala.

Found Duke University professor: "Knowledge networks." Cathy Davidson: http://bit.ly/bpD441

http://www.scribd.com/doc/34844223/Covering-the-course-an-online-learnin... <-- the project of me and Nadhir

....Davidson is co founder of HASTAC and has knowledge of McCormick Foundation funds and projects.

oh thanks tokyomango, really exists a kindness from the visitors with the owners, but it is most common between the amateurs. what you think ?

where is the mailing list?

Joi, we have one moreproject

the robot people?!

awesome

i love robot people

Quinn: http://groups.google.com/group/p2pu-digital-journalism

they're like real people but without the annoying human emotions

oh i had problems with th streaming. a bad time .I Missed your speak Dore,

hey thanks guys, really had fun watching

Oooh. Link for feng shui blog? Very big in the U.S. actually these days.

my dad would put my bed next to the window so it was easier for him to defenestrate me

@Gustavo_ But I seen.

if you read Japanese, there is a great blog about spirituality and popular culture

Does someone have the URL for their blog?

������������

sooo good

http://superstitionworldwide.wordpress.com/

run by the same guys that do gizmodo/lifehacker japan

oh wow, neato!

hmm guess i missed all the action /wave

@joi: shall we just wrap-up the class after these ladies are finished w/their pres.?

Heck yeah, daughter's a Type B blood type....:)

somewhat related, Japanese blood type infographic http://www.geekinheels.com/storage/history_of_japanese_blood_typing.jpg

i forget what blood type I am.

ladies, this blog is a great idea and fun!

yeah, i'm vain, rude, and a universal acceptor of blood...

you fail @seanbonner

but you must be O

O as in OSSM

Andriak: the blood thing is crazy, in AB0 system you split people in 4 types

it's an interesting line to walk talking about superstitions while being respectful, since they are a bit mutually exclusive

across cultures that is

wonderful blog, please keep it going!

@Laurian Yeah, the scientific question is whether one lives up to expectations set by the superstitions.

Thanks you all very much!

Andriak: oddly Hippocrates split the temperaments into 4 too

@sean: pls. punch palin

nomikai!

Thanks a lot Joi Ito!!!

time

thank you all

Thanks Joi.

thanks joi for inviting me along