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Introduction to Cyberpunk Literature - Mar 2010
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Blade Runner: The Human Android or the Android Human?
Hei all,
Just thought I'd open the discussion thread for Blade Runner.
The Wikipedia resource for the movie is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blade_runner
I watched the movie last night and was impressed by the level of cyberpunk vision compared with the movie's year of production. It is just as old as I am :)). Loved the neo-noir world depicted in the movie and identified some more of the cyberpunk elements I am hunting for. (Of course, the deadline extension for the essay comes in very handy for me, as I hadn't seen the movie before and it is, I think, central to understanding cyberpunk).
So, in brief, what struck me was the construction of the android in the movie. While in AI David chokes with spinach, the guys in Blade Runner don't seem to mind having breakfast and having all organic parts manufactured to perfect similitude with the humans. What, then, is the difference between the two? The Blade Runner android is the perfect killing / exploration machine. I've seen nothing more. I was disappointed that they did not connect to some sort of cyberspace to get their information from. And ultimately, the dieing Roy expresses nothing more than regret for his memories that will vanish into nothingness, just like a human's. Well, Data seemed to function differently, and so did David. So much for the difference - both android and human are ephemeral.
In further launching a discussion thread regarding the movie, I found the religious component left to oblivion. Whereas Philip K Dick stresses exactly the need for real animals as companions, status symbols and substitutes for "something" to believe in, the movie reduces their role drastically. Actually, the only thing animals are good for in Blade Runner is serve as evidence to lead to an android. Hm.
One thing to discuss, which I don't understand very well: why all the neons and the Asian hints? Is cyberpunk America overpowered by the Dragon? Something to think about.
Cheers to all!
Dana
Dana you're moving too fast :)
If you want to dive into that world I recommend you to get this book: "Retrofitting Blade Runner: Issues in Ridley Scott's Blade Runner and Phillip K. Dick's Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?"
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=HAma4m3w38EC&lpg=PP1&ots=nUZjXACs6C&d...
Now to be picky, which version of Blade Runner have you seen?
The original, 1982 one :D
Is the 1982 one with the voiceover & happy end?
This documentary on the film is pretty good:
yup, the voice over + happy end is the 1982 one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Versions_of_Blade_Runner
btw, I'm crazy about this movie, I got the box:
http://www.amazon.com/Blade-Runner-Five-Disc-Ultimate-Collectors/dp/B000...
Dana, it is good that you saw the 1982 one, now you have to see the Final Cut; it feels so different.
OK, pretty sure I've only ever seen the Directors cut. Will have to get my hands of the Final cut version as well.
Ok, I'll check to see if the Chinese have a hold on that one as well :)
The book seems interesting. Any idea where I can get my hands on a pdf version of it or read it online?
By the way, case you were wondering about replicants and the like :), Deckard was a replicant. At least in the movie. http://www.devo.com/bladerunner/
To my understanding, I thought it was meant to be ambiguous as to whether he was or was not.
Sjef, the documentary was indeed very good. Highly recommended.
@Avi: Do see the documentary, they explore this "ambiguity" there. And I think it's also a major theme in cyberpunk itself.
I'm almost done reading "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep" and have the "final cut" of the movie coming to me soon. I'm really enjoying the book, and noticing some BSG parallels, namely the Nexus 6 models that don't know they're androids just like the Number 8/Sharon cylons. Any other BSG fans, and do you think that it falls under the cyberpunk heading?
Janine, the same question regarding BSG occurred to me as well. Out of control artificial(or not) intelligence, dystopian society, gritty, dark and hero-less.
The Evolution of Empathy http://peacecenter.berkeley.edu/greatergood/2010/january/De_Waal.php
Janine/Dorene, BSG feels to me more like Space Opera, but I maintain a pretty narrow definition of cyberpunk. Caprica comes a lot closer I think, having the added element of 'V world'. Either would be necessarily postcyberpunk though imo.
I haven't seen Caprica yet, but I was discussing BSG with a coworker, who said he'd sooner call it "steam punk" because they're using outmoded technology in a future setting. I say it's a combo of all three- a cyber/steam/opera!
I'm trying to flesh out my latest assignment, and am kind of stuck so I'm coming here instead. I'll just come out and say it- I don't like Bladerunner. I was neutral towards it when I first saw it a few years ago, but then I read the book for the first time for this course and it made me like the movie even less. I think they did a great job realizing the visual aspect, but I felt like there was a severe lack of character development, which made it quite difficult to give a rat's ass about Deckard. I wish they hadn't glossed over the status associated with the owning of real animals, and the inclusion of Mercer would have spiced things up. If nothing else I think they could have done more with the Pris/JF story line as the Isidore character was the most achingly human/emotional in the book.
AS for the Deckard and Rosen story, their "relationship" bugged me the most about the film adaptation. Why was their sex scene so rapey? It would have been much more interesting if they had explored Deckard's motivations for sleeping with a replicant as was done in the book instead of making him out to be some doofy brute. Rutger Hower as Batty was great, but all-in-all I found it to be a pretty flat interpretation of what could have been an amazing adaptation.
Interesting, I thought the writing on the screen adaption was actually really good largely because of the things that were cut out of the original story. I just couldn't imagine how having Harrison Ford hang out with a sheep and watch a guy on TV have rocks thrown at him could be made to come across on screen as not looking kind of ridiculous. It would just add comedy for me that doesn't need to be in Bladerunner haha.
Kind of agree about not caring much about the characters, but I never watched this movie for them in the first place so it doesn't bother me much. This is one of very few movies that can get by me completely on visuals, I watch it for the art/effects/sets/lighting and the story is ok enough not to bother me even on the nth time seeing it, but yeah I guess there is a lot to not like.
The sex scene gets talked about in one of the documentaries (think it was some part of 'Dangerous Days'?), I think the rapeyness is largely due to the fact that the chick who played Rachel wasn't a very experienced actress and that Harrison Ford was just generally pissed off at that stage in the shoot. They show several earlier takes of that scene, all of which are supposed to be more passionate or whatever and they really don't work well at all. It's weird.
Hey Sjef,
thanks for pointing that out, I haven't watched the doc yet. thanks also for posting so much supplemental material to check out! I've got to find some time to watch them all. If you visit NY you should check out the American Museum of the Moving Image (ammi.org) where they have some of the original models from Bladerunner on display.