Introduction to Cyberpunk Literature - Mar 2010

5:20pm

5:31pmLaurianyup, I'll broadcast that, but there is a complete lack of involvment lately :(

5:32pmzombieToastyeah so I noticed

5:32pmLaurianI know that the p2pu site was kind of not working in the past week, but no assignment submissions :(

5:32pmzombieToastmaybe moving the meet will help get some people back on bard

5:32pmzombieToastheh my assignment is 80% done

5:32pmzombieToastjust need to do the other 80%...

5:32pmLaurianyup, I asked people to comment on the etherpad when/etc. .... nothing

5:33pmLaurian:)

5:34pmLaurianhow's spring over there?

5:34pmzombieToaststarted off good, could be warmer now

5:35pmzombieToastlooking better next week

5:36pmzombieToastI'm just gonna blame the volcano

5:37pmzombieToasthi Dorene

5:37pmLaurianhello

5:37pmDoreneHi!

5:38pmDoreneHow's everyone today?

5:38pmzombieToastnot bad

5:38pmLaurianwe're talking about spring, volcano, etc

5:38pmDoreneAh, volcano

5:38pmLaurianwe'll go steampunk, use blimps and not planes :)

5:38pmzombieToastand possibly moving this chat to a later timeslot

5:38pmzombieToasttrans-atlantic zepplin flight

5:38pmzombieToastthey have to bring that back

5:39pmDoreneWhat time are you thinking of?

5:39pmLaurianzombieToast: was thinking of this to catch others

5:39pmLaurianbut the issue is that the others said nothing

5:39pmDoreneI would pay to go on a trans atlantic zeppelin flight

5:39pmLaurianso, I'll broadcast again a request for scheduling and see if we have any responses

5:39pmLaurianas the involvement with the course fell lately

5:39pmzombieToastLaurian: I know, but if the 4 of us just agree to move then its done

5:40pmLaurianI'm trying to reach Dana and find out her work schedule, she started recently (Norway)

5:40pmzombieToastoh the new job?

5:41pmLaurianzombieToast: yeah, something consulting IT

5:41pmzombieToastwell as I was saying, I wouldn't mind if this was a lot later

5:41pmLaurianbtw, I'm moving too, in July, from the institute kmi.open.ac.uk to Talis.con

5:41pmLaurianTalis.com

5:41pmDoreneI think I'm on the opposite side of the world from everybody

5:42pmLaurianthat's why the past 2 weeks I was terrible busy with interviews + paperwork

5:42pmzombieToastah, k. Well I don't know how late you & Dana can make it but I can easily go up to 8 hours later

5:43pmDorene8 hours later puts me right in the middle of a teaching hour

5:44pmDoreneBut I guess I can just switch over to mostly using the discussions...I need to do that more anyway

5:44pmzombieToastheh ok not so convenient maybe

5:44pmLaurianI could do two chats, but then again, with whom :)

5:45pmzombieToasthaha yeah

5:45pmLaurianI can actually talk with the bot

5:45pmLaurianit knows only this command:

5:45pmLauriantime

5:45pmW1NT3RMUT3Laurian: the time is now Wed Apr 21 16:41:01 UTC 2010

5:45pmLaurianI could code more :)

5:45pmDoreneAt least it responds! ;-)

5:45pmzombieToaststimulating conversation for sure

5:45pmDorenewill it work for me?

5:45pmDorenetime

5:45pmW1NT3RMUT3Dorene: the time is now Wed Apr 21 16:41:27 UTC 2010

5:46pmDoreneNice!

5:46pmLaurianW1NT3RMUT3: a wasp is crawling on your hand, what would you do?

5:46pmLaurianW1NT3RMUT3: pay attention, response time is a factor!

5:46pmDoreneWhat's a wasp?

5:46pmDoreneI think it's an android

5:46pmLauriana social winged insect :0

5:47pmLaurianwith beautiful waist and jean paul gautiere-style stripes

5:47pmDoreneLOL

5:48pmLaurianso, zombieToast is 80% done on his assignment, and having 80% more to do ;)

5:48pmLaurianI'll post this week the rest of the all assignments with far future dates

5:48pmzombieToastok

5:49pmLaurianghost in the shell + little brother, freedom downtime + hacker crackdown, and the final one: write story or essay

5:49pmDoreneI am well into the assignment for Punk Setting

5:49pmLaurianDorene: take your time, deadline next week

5:49pmDoreneI've read Little Brother and have Ghost inthe Shell yet to watch

5:50pmDoreneOkay

5:50pmDoreneOh

5:50pmDoreneI finally finished Diamond Age

5:50pmLaurianGhost in the Shell 2 Innocence, not Ghost in the Shell 2.0 (the re-mastering of the original Ghost in the Shell)

5:50pmDoreneI know it's not on our list

5:50pmDorenebut I really enjoyed it

5:50pmDoreneyes, I have 2.0

5:50pmDoreneno

5:51pmDoreneI have innocence

5:51pmDoreneat least I think I do

5:51pmzombieToastHavn't got around to reading any Neal Stephenson yet

5:51pmLaurianDorene: no problem, ahhh, I have to post the assignment on favourite sci-fis

5:51pmzombieToastJust finished The Shockwave Rider

5:51pmDoreneYes, I have Innocence

5:51pmLaurianNeal S. is quite hard to read, I'm not an native English speaker and I find quite hard to follow him

5:51pmDorenegot it from Netflix the other day

5:51pmDoreneNeal S is hard to read

5:52pmDoreneI call his books "chewy"

5:52pmDorenebut I love his stories

5:52pmzombieToasthard to read is fine as long as the story moves

5:53pmDoreneand for me, much of his English dialogue is very English

5:53pmDorenealmost British English

5:53pmDoreneso I stumble a bit here and there

5:53pmzombieToasthe is american though isn't he?

5:53pmLaurianhmm, I learned English watching Star Trek Next Generation and Tonight Show with Jay Leno (NBC Europe)

5:54pmDoreneI think so...but many of his characters are British or British wannabees

5:54pmDoreneWow, Laurian that's impressive

5:54pmDoreneI can't imagine being a non native speaker and learning english

5:54pmDoreneIt is so full of contradictions as a language

5:54pmzombieToastmost kids pick it up from TV

5:55pmLaurianDorene: it was easier than the languages in school, where I did french and german

5:55pmzombieToasthaha yeah german grammar is awful

5:56pmDoreneI think German would be hard...what is your native language Laurian?

5:56pmLaurianand movies with subtitles (not dubbed) helped a lot in learning new words from context

5:56pmLaurianDorene: Romanian, latin origin

5:56pmDoreneLaurian: kind of related to spanish, then?

5:56pmzombieToastDo they generally dub TV shows over there?

5:56pmLaurianitalian is closer

5:57pmDoreneHmmm...I think I would like to learn a new language

5:57pmLaurianDorene: I can understand most of the latin based languages, italian the easiest, spanish, I might need to see it written as the sound is quite misleading from the latin roots

5:57pmDoreneI'll have to look into it

5:58pmLaurianzombieToast: in most of the european countries they dub the movies, in Romania they did not, it was wonderful.

5:58pmzombieToastyeah they don't here in holland either

5:59pmzombieToastI've never understood why they do it in france/germant etc

5:59pmLaurianI have colleagues that they cannot watch now movies in English, as they got used with dubbing

5:59pmzombieToastsome of the german dubs are funny as hell

5:59pmzombieToastI recommend Shaft in german

6:00pmLauriana girl here (italian one) told me that she hates the "natural" voice of George Clooney, she prefers the dubbed italian macho one :)

6:00pmzombieToastmit der bruder man

6:00pmzombieToasthaha

6:00pmLaurianseen once Star Trek in italian, it was SO WRONG

6:00pmLaurianimagine a klingonian speaking italian!

6:00pmDoreneOh, man

6:00pmDorenethat is a ROUGH image

6:00pmLaurianand when they translated "warp seven" to "a curbatura sette" I just died

6:01pmDorenei could see Klingons speak German though, ;-)

6:01pmLaurianseen the original Star Trek in german, it was funny to see Spock so logical and so german :)

6:02pmLaurianbrb 5 min

6:02pmLaurian(work issue :( )

6:04pmDoreneAh, duty calls...

6:04pmDoreneMy students would be pulling me away if I were at school too

6:04pmDorenezombietoast: where are you located again?

6:04pmzombieToastAmsterdam

6:04pmLaurianback

6:04pmDoreneThat was quick!

6:05pmLaurianyeah, delegated task ;)

6:05pmDoreneLaurian: How are the other P2P classes faring this go around?

6:05pmDoreneIt just seems like our participation is struggling a bit...how are the other classes doing?

6:06pmLaurianI'll ask, nobody complained, well, they complained about the server, and students not interacting with the discussion feature as it is cumbersome

6:06pmLaurianand they are now discussing to have wikis for each course

6:06pmzombieToastwikis, really?

6:06pmLaurianto allow each course to self-organize and not be bound in the form fields of the current thingie

6:07pmDoreneI really love the concept...but feel like in our case it's not working as well as it was envisioned

6:07pmLaurianthe previous iteration was all on wordpress, it was perfect

6:07pmzombieToastyeah the current site has some serious interaction design issues

6:07pmLaurianI find a pain to post something on the current system, as the visual editor doesn't work OK for me

6:08pmLaurianif I re-edit something I loose all the formatting, well, tech issues

6:08pmLaurianI doubt that for a p2p thing we need a VLE or something, a wiki should suffice

6:09pmDoreneI just started a class for teachers at school

6:09pmDoreneas a student

6:09pmDoreneit's all done by discussion

6:09pmDorenebut i find the same issues prevail

6:09pmDoreneparticipation is low or very last minute

6:09pmDorenepeople seem to only be engaging because the have to

6:10pmDorenenot because they are interested in discussion

6:10pmLaurianit is complicated

6:10pmDorenewhich in the case of the teachers, many of them just do it for CE credit

6:10pmLaurianis it the people, is it the system or is it the topic?

6:10pmDorenethey don't really care about the topic that much

6:10pmDoreneWhich is frustrating for someone like me who enjoys the discussion

6:12pmLaurianif you would ask them to propose a topic

6:13pmDoreneWe have topics...it's a 4 week class

6:13pmDoreneeach week already have 2 discussion topics built in

6:14pmDoreneour first week ends tomorrow

6:14pmDoreneand so far only 3 of 13 people have participated

6:14pmDoreneI am willing to bet that tonight the other 10 will post perfunctory statements and responses

6:14pmLaurianand I suppose you cannot just let only 3 pass the course, right?

6:15pmDoreneIt isn't even a pass/fail situation

6:15pmDorenei think that's the problem a little bit

6:15pmzombieToastno stick, no carrot....

6:16pmDorenepeople are req'd to participate in continuing education

6:16pmDorenebut really don't want to

6:16pmDorenethose of us who do it because we love learning new things get frustrated

6:16pmDoreneI appreciate flexibility with deadlines, we are all busy so it's helpful

6:17pmDorenebut if you don't care, don't sign up in the first place

6:17pmzombieToastThere's some discussion in the lounge on that

6:17pmDoreneif you do care...show your interest occasionally and genuinely

6:17pmzombieToastusing an extra assignment to filter out the non-participants

6:18pmLaurianzombieToast: yeah, and we'll have no students :)

6:18pmDoreneI was ready for this class to write an essay to get in!

6:18pmzombieToastLaurian: haha

6:18pmLaurianon the previous iteration we had a kind of micro essay to write to get accepted into the course

6:18pmDoreneIt seemed like that had been a requirement for the first go around

6:18pmDoreneso I was READY

6:19pmDorenebut again, I am truly interested and want to be engaged

6:19pmDoreneand now I feel like I just went off on a ten minute rant about distance learning

6:19pmzombieToastIt's only the 2nd iteration, i think p2pU has a lot of tough problems to solve

6:19pmDorenesorry guys...<Dorene is climbing off her soapbox...>

6:20pmDoreneI don't think the problems are uniqute to P2P, though

6:20pmzombieToastno this is just another sandbox

6:20pmLaurianDorene: it is important

6:21pmDoreneI really do love this concept

6:21pmDoreneand I intend to stay involved somehow

6:21pmLaurianhmmm, how would be a cyberpunk distance learning?

6:21pmLaurianvirtual reality?

6:21pmLaurianrole playing games as learning?

6:21pmDoreneSecond Life

6:22pmzombieToastmemory implants

6:22pmDoreneand there is something to be said for learning games

6:22pmLauriangetting hacking assignments? :)

6:22pmDoreneMy skills would need a major upgrade

6:23pmzombieToastcheck out www.armrev.org -> gaming driven social change

6:23pmDoreneI'm a high end user...but as a creator I miss the mark by quite a bit

6:24pmDoreneoh, that looks interesting

6:24pmDorenejust sent it to my work e-mail...I'll make it my afternoon research

6:25pmzombieToastbit sparse at the moment as its still in beta, but if they can get some hundreds of thousands of users on board it'll be very cool

6:25pmLaurianinteresting, minimised for later reading

6:26pmzombieToastusing gaming systems for education will gain a lot more traction in future I think

6:26pmzombieToastisn't there a school in the US that does it full-time already?

6:27pmzombieToastI remember seeing something to that effect on some pbs documentary or something

6:27pmDoreneDiamond Age was a timely read for me as it dealt with the learning situation of a very young impoverished child who stumbled upon an interactive book designed to gear its story to the individual it "bonded" to

6:27pmLaurianzombieToast: we need game designers, and they are not cheap

6:28pmLauriandesigning a game is not like laying out a curriculum

6:28pmDoreneHmmm...maybe I should start a new life as an educational game designer

6:28pmLaurianit must be exciting, get you to compete

6:28pmzombieToastyeah, which school should do as well

6:28pmLaurianand nowadays it looks like the schools is discouraging competition, and elitism, etc

6:29pmDoreneYes, it has to engage your right away

6:29pmLaurian"everybody wins" policy, which is BS, in life is not like that

6:29pmDoreneno, it's not

6:30pmDoreneBut no child can be left behind, you know?

6:30pmLaurianDorene: I would

6:31pmLaurianbut I'm biased

6:31pmLaurianI've been raised in a communist regime, and I was springloaded to jump into the other extreme

6:31pmDoreneHere in Washington State, the high school curriculums have become focused solely on the goal of 100% university acceptance

6:31pmDorenewhich is just not realistic

6:31pmzombieToastugh

6:32pmLaurianterrible, is education an utility?

6:32pmzombieToastEducational systems need to take into account that there is more than 1 way to learn

6:32pmLaurianuniv. I mean

6:32pmDoreneLaurian, you would think so...everyone wants to think very formulaicly

6:32pmDorene(is that a word???)

6:33pmLaurianit is, it parses as, I get the idea, the dictionaries are behind anyway :)

6:33pmDoreneBut they don't take into account how many different ways there are to learn, teach, or what an individuals interests and inclinations are

6:34pmDorenethe idea of apprenticing to a mentor or expert and learning a skill has almost died completely

6:34pmDoreneOh, god, I am off on another rant aren't I?

6:34pmDoreneYou guys are going to want to change the time just to shut me up

6:35pmzombieToasthaha nah

6:35pmLaurian:)

6:36pmzombieToastlucky I haven't started my dropout rant in return

6:36pmDoreneLOL

6:36pmDoreneSpeaking of education ;-)

6:36pmDoreneI should probably head to school

6:37pmLaurianI learned from mentors, I had the opportunity to meet extraordinary people in school and university, nowadays I see just drones preaching and not teaching stuff

6:37pmzombieToastwhat you're going to let school get in the way of your education!?

6:37pmLaurianlong are the days where I could get a good grade by improvising and not reciting ... nice times

6:37pmDoreneI know <hanging head in shame>

6:38pmDoreneHave a great evening you guys

6:38pmLaurianthanks, you too

6:38pmDoreneLet me know what time you choose for the next meeting

6:38pmzombieToastyou too, learn em

6:38pmDorenewill do!

6:38pmDoreneBye

6:38pmLaurianbye

6:38pmzombieToastlater

6:38pmLaurianzombieToast: I'll go now, hungry :)

6:38pmzombieToastsame

Introduction to Cyberpunk Literature - Mar 2010

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