Go back to: General discussion
[4:53pm] <ChanServ>[#cyberpunk] http://newark.pardey.org
[4:53pm] » Laurian_ lost connection
[4:54pm] <Laurian_>I suppose zombieToast is Sjef and I know that sundance_kiddo is Dana; but we're here in cyberspace and we'll use our avatars not our names :)
[4:54pm]Laurian left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[4:54pm]You are now known as Laurian.
[4:54pm] » Laurian should be known as balaur (dragon in Romanian)
[4:55pm]You are now known as Balaur.
[4:59pm] » zombieToast is sjef
[4:59pm] <zombieToast>yeah
[5:01pm] <Balaur>Hello
[5:01pm] <zombieToast>Hi
[5:01pm] <Balaur>how the web business in Netherlands these days?
[5:01pm] <Balaur>how is*
[5:02pm] <zombieToast>heh, depends where your work is really
[5:02pm] <zombieToast>it's all still a bit scrappy at the moment for smaller studios
[5:03pm] <zombieToast>clients are still hanging on tight to their wallets haha
[5:03pm] <Balaur>I know how it is, I've been with grapefruit.ro for 7 years
[5:04pm] » Balaur is wondering what sundance_kiddo is doing…
[5:04pm] <sundance_kiddo>hihi
[5:04pm] <sundance_kiddo>I am rejoicing
[5:04pm] <sundance_kiddo>I just got a job offer
[5:04pm] <sundance_kiddo>aquarian lucky week, this is
[5:05pm] <zombieToast>gg
[5:05pm] <Balaur>in Norway? sundance_kiddo
[5:05pm] <sundance_kiddo>yeap
[5:05pm] <Balaur>sundance_kiddo: aquarian lucky week? hmmm, I hope so, I'm waiting for a response too from an awesome palce
[5:06pm] <sundance_kiddo>i know :) thats why i said its the aquarian lucky week :D
[5:06pm] <Balaur>:)
[5:06pm] <Balaur>ok, so let's get back to the course
[5:06pm] <Balaur>I've been as student in the previous one
[5:07pm] <Balaur>in october-november last year
[5:07pm] <Balaur>it was crazy, we were all crazy people passionately talking about cyberpunk etc
[5:08pm]Dorene joined the chat room.
[5:08pm] <Balaur>it was really peer to peer, so, I'm in this course to set a direction and force all of you collaborate
[5:08pm] <Balaur>hello Dorene
[5:08pm] <Dorene>Hi
[5:08pm] <sundance_kiddo>it will be funny
[5:08pm] » Balaur we are so cyberpunk-ish that we use codenames, I'm Laurian
[5:08pm] <sundance_kiddo>I am so passionate about space opera and dystopias
[5:09pm] » zombieToast is sjef
[5:09pm] <sundance_kiddo>we would be cyberpunks if we used anagrams
[5:09pm] <sundance_kiddo>I am Dana
[5:09pm] <Balaur>Dorene: just before you got here I was saying that the previous course was really peer-to-peer
[5:09pm] <Balaur>we were all crazy people passionately talking about cyberpunk etc
[5:09pm] <Balaur>so, I'm in this course to set a direction and force all of you collaborate; as you all know more than me
[5:09pm] <Dorene>Isn't that what it's supposed to be?
[5:10pm] <Balaur>yup, but apparently in other p2pu courses the things were slower
[5:10pm] <Dorene>Peer to peer is an unusual direction for education
[5:10pm] <Dorene>so I could see why some people might be slow to adapt
[5:10pm] <sundance_kiddo>Dorene: why? I find this is the best way to learn
[5:11pm] <Dorene>Everyone is used to the traditional teacher-student model
[5:11pm] <Balaur>sundance_kiddo: sit down and speak only when asked :) LOL
[5:11pm] <Dorene>I agree it's a fantastic way to learn
[5:11pm] <Dorene>and I encourage the same type of dynamic with my own students
[5:11pm] <Dorene>But we spend most of our lives being "led" through education, so to speak
[5:12pm] <Balaur>Dorene: what are you teaching?
[5:12pm] <zombieToast>not all of us ;)
[5:12pm] <Dorene>peer to peer is defintely out of our comfort zones
[5:12pm] <Dorene>I teach at a local technical college
[5:12pm] <Dorene>engineering design...mostly drafting, cad and critical thinking skills
[5:12pm] <sundance_kiddo>hihi :)
[5:13pm] <Balaur>nice, you know, you could start a P2PU course on this ;)
[5:13pm] <sundance_kiddo>we could help you with the acronyms :))
[5:13pm] » Balaur is checking the bot
[5:13pm] <Balaur>time
[5:13pm] » Balaur is rebooting the bot
[5:14pm]W1NT3RMUT3 left the chat room. ("down for maintenance")
[5:14pm]W1NT3RMUT3 joined the chat room.
[5:14pm] <zombieToast>yeah would be an intersting course, a lot of people are getting interested in cad etc in order to be able to fab stuff
[5:14pm] <Balaur>time
[5:14pm] <W1NT3RMUT3>Balaur: the time is now Wed Mar 24 17:10:29 UTC 2010
[5:14pm] <Dorene>I agree
[5:14pm] <Dorene>figuring out how to make it collaborative is something I'm pondering
[5:15pm] <Balaur>it is "makers" era, from software to hardware, arduino, etc.
[5:15pm] » Balaur should get Makers by Cory Doctorow
[5:15pm] <Dorene>I read Make magazine and wish I had the time, resources, freedom to pursue more of the projects I see there
[5:16pm] <zombieToast>its a good read makers
[5:16pm] <Dorene>and really wish I could adapt them for my students
[5:16pm] <Dorene>I jumped the gun and read "Little Brother"...
[5:16pm] » Balaur is getting an arduino, it will kill all my free time
[5:16pm] <Balaur>good, is part of the course
[5:17pm] <Balaur>so, let me explain why I have those books and movies in the course
[5:17pm] <Dorene>Go for it
[5:18pm] <Balaur>I'm following 2 directions: human vs. human replica and
[5:18pm] <Balaur>"The future is already here - it is just unevenly distributed" (William Gibson quote)
[5:19pm] <Balaur>that's why we move towards almost present time stories (I'll propose additional optional readings)
[5:19pm] <Balaur>and that's why we get real with history, 20 years ago (god, I'm old...) in 1990, the hacker crackdown and freedom downtime
[5:20pm] <zombieToast>haha it's grat how 30ish is now old
[5:20pm] <zombieToast>*great
[5:20pm] <Balaur>those things read as cyberpunk, it is very interesting as study of how society and goverments responded to those events
[5:21pm] <Balaur>William Gibson "Spook Country" is cyberpunk that happens in present, is about iPods, augmented reality, etc
[5:21pm] <Balaur>and so on.
[5:21pm] <zombieToast>I preferred pattern recognition tbh, still very current
[5:21pm] <Dorene>Spook Country is definitely on my list just out of general principal...I haven't read it yet.
[5:22pm] <Dorene>Thats funny zombie toast
[5:22pm] <Balaur>on the human/human replica, A.I. shows both love and hate towards them, Philip K Dick explores more philosophical aspects, Blade Runner shows them more human than human
[5:22pm] <Dorene>I feel like Pattern Recognition is already starting to fee a bit dated
[5:22pm] <Balaur>and Ghost in the Shell 2 forces them to be more human
[5:22pm] <Balaur>(in a very wrong way)
[5:22pm] <zombieToast>yeah, but so is spook country imo, and it only just came out..
[5:22pm] <Dorene>even Little Brother, only two years old, is off slightly
[5:23pm] <Dorene>I'm sure it's a challenge for authors, to write something involving tech that can stand the test of time...even a short lenght of time
[5:23pm] <Balaur>so basically this is the idea, the course is made by you, suggest other stories, write essays point to reviews of books as not everyone will have time to read them all, etc
[5:23pm] <sundance_kiddo>I cried when I saw AI
[5:24pm] <Dorene>I look forward to watching AI again...I only recall it minimally
[5:24pm] <Balaur>sundance_kiddo: I believe everybody did ... and the boy: _it_ is just a machine, right? what makes us human?
[5:25pm] <zombieToast>man i hate that kid
[5:25pm] <Balaur>zombieToast: explain
[5:25pm] <Dorene>for me, viewing the films as "literature" will be a novel concept.
[5:25pm] <sundance_kiddo>weird eyes kid
[5:26pm] <Balaur>Dorene: we had films in the previous course too, we had Matrix, Blade Runner
[5:26pm] <sundance_kiddo>Balaur what info repository shall be use? only p2pu.org? for the essays i mean
[5:26pm] <Balaur>p2pu.org site is still, let's say beta... write your work safely somewhere, google docs, etc, your own blog, and repost it to p2pu
[5:27pm] <sundance_kiddo>you were telling us about the previous course, also. what did you produce at the end?
[5:27pm] <Balaur>at the end we had to write our own cyberpunk story
[5:27pm] <Balaur>it was tough and fun
[5:27pm] <Dorene>I am feeling very "yikes" about that!
[5:28pm] <zombieToast>Balaur: found him very annoying, I guess that part of being a dumb naive android kid. Only char. in the movie that talks sense is the sidekick bear
[5:28pm] <Dorene>I am an avid consumer...creating will be a challenge
[5:28pm] <Balaur>you can do an essay or something, you don't have to create one
[5:28pm] <sundance_kiddo>Balaur: thought so about the site, i managed to introduce myself three times :))
[5:28pm] <Balaur>sundance_kiddo: the site was developed around the clock, and yeah, there are still issues, blame Drupal...
[5:29pm] <sundance_kiddo>not sure if I am the writer type, I'd rather do a comparison or some analysis
[5:29pm] <Balaur>zombieToast: it was supposed to be annoying, as a game character playing on a simple set of rules
[5:29pm] <zombieToast>you can get an account on the bug tracker if you want to mark up stuff you nitice is boken
[5:29pm] <Balaur>zombieToast: like a bot, it reacts the same to the same stimuli
[5:30pm] <Balaur>zombieToast: I prefer to email them, it make them feel more guilty :)
[5:30pm] <Balaur>so, Dorene, for the end assignment we'll have other options than a short story
[5:30pm] <zombieToast>Balaur: Yeah i dunno, it didn't come off as consistent within the world of the movie, given de state of the other ai's around the kid is just too dumb
[5:31pm] <zombieToast>he's supposed to represent the state of the art
[5:31pm] <Dorene>I am going to stay open to the idea of writing one...I'm just saying it scares the hell out of me! :-)
[5:31pm] <Balaur>zombieToast: he was a prototype
[5:31pm] <sundance_kiddo>zombieToast must be because of the actor, he is unnerving
[5:32pm] <Balaur>Dorene: I was the same, I had some ideas but never wrote them down, and then when the deadline arrived, I just wrote it and it felt so good that I'm planning to write more
[5:33pm] <Dorene>@Balaur Right now, I don't even have ideas...but hope to generate some as we move through the course
[5:34pm] <Balaur>so, for next week, we should read that short story and see AI, I'll post the assignment tonight as well with a larger description of this week, with more optional readings from the same book (burning chrome)
[5:34pm] <Dorene>So can we talk about meeting time? Today this time worked out fine
[5:34pm] <Dorene>but next week I am back at school...even 30 minutes earlier would be better for me
[5:35pm] <Balaur>yup, there are some people I still have no idea on what timezone they are, but apart of them and me, sundance_kiddo and zombieToast, all are from US
[5:35pm] <Balaur>so, I guess we can move the meeting at a later hour
[5:35pm] <Dorene>not later!
[5:35pm] <zombieToast>np
[5:35pm] <Balaur>sok
[5:35pm] <Dorene>earlier please
[5:35pm] <sundance_kiddo>or we could have two meetings
[5:35pm] <Balaur>ok, I'll draw everyone on a map
[5:35pm] <sundance_kiddo>i actually don't mind
[5:35pm] <zombieToast>yeah I'm easy as well
[5:36pm] <Dorene>Later and I can't participate...just 30 minutes earlier would be better for me
[5:36pm] <Balaur>yup, sundance_kiddo that would be ok, I can summarise from one meetting to anotehr what we discussed
[5:36pm] <Balaur>and I'll post the transcripts online
[5:36pm] » Balaur pings the bot
[5:36pm] <Balaur>time
[5:36pm] <W1NT3RMUT3>Balaur: the time is now Wed Mar 24 17:32:25 UTC 2010
[5:36pm] » Balaur bot alive, good
[5:36pm] <Dorene>okay, explain the bot to me
[5:37pm] <Balaur>first it's name recalls Wintermute from Neuromancer
[5:37pm] <Dorene>I knew I recognized that name
[5:37pm] <Dorene>I just recently read neuromancer
[5:38pm] <Balaur>and technically is a small java program that listens to what we talk, and logs it line by line in a semantic web store on talis.com platform
[5:38pm] <Balaur>additionally it tags each line by using the zemanta.com API
[5:38pm] <zombieToast>yeah, can you post docs on that?
[5:39pm] <Balaur>not to the bot, but on the talis store you can store blobs apart of RDF ata
[5:39pm] <Balaur>data
[5:39pm] <Dorene>wow
[5:39pm] <Balaur>we did it just for fun :)
[5:39pm] <Dorene>I think I understood about 1/3 of what you just typed
[5:39pm] <Balaur>Nadeem which was in the previous course works for talis
[5:40pm] <Balaur>Dorene: ok, talis.com provides a service to store and query data
[5:40pm] <Dorene>found it
[5:40pm] <Balaur>that data in in RDF format, used as building block for the Semantic Web (dream, idea, etc)
[5:40pm] <Dorene>I'll poke around
[5:41pm] <Balaur>the data is basically statements: Subject Predicate Object
[5:41pm] <sundance_kiddo>I'll need to have the IT guy living in my house compile this information
[5:41pm] <Balaur>so a chat line is: LineID hasContent "what you said"; LineID hasAuthor Dorene; LineID hasDate currentDate; tc
[5:42pm] <Dorene>Does it make it easier to search? Is that the idea?
[5:42pm] <Balaur>and I can query like select * where {line? hasAuthor "Dorene"} and I get all you said
[5:43pm] <Balaur>yup, you can easily build tools, visualisations over that data, as the structure is very simple
[5:43pm] <Balaur>hmmm, we can as side project in the course to play with this data
[5:43pm] <Dorene>That might be cool
[5:44pm] <Balaur>so, back to meeting times
[5:44pm] <Balaur>you would prefer earlyer?
[5:45pm] <Balaur>earlier (ahhh, I'm not a native english speaker)
[5:45pm] <Dorene>I would, but only because I have to be teaching at [11:00(PDT)] 6:00GMT
[5:46pm] <zombieToast>Did you use diigo in the last cycle btw?
[5:46pm] <Balaur>hahaha, looking in the bot logs, it got the word "native" and mapped as sense to dmoz/Top/Society/Religion_and_Spirituality/Christianity/People/Native_Americans
[5:46pm] <Balaur>zombieToast: nope, I'm not aware of it
[5:46pm] <Balaur>Dorene: Thursdays would be better?
[5:47pm] <Dorene>Nope...Thursdays wouldn't be better at all. I teach all morning on Thursdays. Wednesday I don't start until late, but meeting at 10:00 puts me right up against my start time
[5:48pm] <Dorene>if we could start a little earlier it would work great...
[5:48pm] <Balaur>ok, I'll ask the people to discuss it further on the etherpad
[5:48pm] <Dorene>just a tiny bit :-)
[5:48pm] <zombieToast>Balaur: diigo.com, allows you to share annotated/tagged bookmarks - good for marking pages for research.
[5:49pm] <Balaur>zombieToast: nice, I'll check it
[5:49pm] <zombieToast>would be good to have a group for the course
[5:49pm] <sundance_kiddo>zombieToast wonder if a wiki page wouldn't be better
[5:49pm] <Balaur>zombieToast: is it different from delicious?
[5:49pm] <sundance_kiddo>in my experience, groups become quickly extinct
[5:50pm] <zombieToast>I find it works a lot quicker than a wiki
[5:51pm] <zombieToast>once it's filled out it can't really go extinct, maybe just kind of stale
[5:51pm] <Balaur>wikis are hard to collaborate, to much space to write scare people
[5:52pm] <Balaur>zombieToast: we could actually create our own tool :)
[5:52pm] <sundance_kiddo>2 messages per year? :)
[5:53pm] <sundance_kiddo>pity actually that p2pu is a bit draggy
[5:53pm] <zombieToast>run it off our hand built decks..
[5:54pm] <zombieToast>brb got to go stab someone for 3megs of ram haha
[5:54pm] <Balaur>sundance_kiddo: they will fix it
[5:54pm] <Balaur>zombieToast: 3megs ram? kidding?
[5:55pm] <sundance_kiddo>right, well, to sum up: for me, any meeting time is cool. I can even wake up at night, since we are getting close to 16 hrs daylight :))
[5:55pm] <Balaur>sundance_kiddo: noted. :D [evil laugh]
[5:55pm] <sundance_kiddo>offline collaboration - wiki table, p2pu, Gdocs etc
[5:56pm] <Balaur>gwave also, I made one, if you search for cyberpunk p2pu you should find it, it is public
[5:56pm] <sundance_kiddo>:D no issue, i got a full reserve of black tea :D still waiting for an espresso machine
[5:56pm] <sundance_kiddo>cool!
[5:56pm] <Balaur>I already added zombieToast to it
[5:56pm] <Balaur>ok, so should we wrap this for today?
[5:57pm] <Balaur>I'll post the discussion on the p2pu site, ok?
[5:57pm] <zombieToast>ah the wave. maybe finally I'll find out what it;s for...
[5:57pm] <Balaur>and I'll post more details on optional readings by next week and detail the assignment
[5:57pm] <Balaur>is Dorene still here?
[5:58pm] <Dorene>Yes
[5:58pm] <Balaur>so, we'll keep this meeting time for next week and add an additional one to accomodate the other if needed
[5:58pm] <Balaur>actually 30' earlier than this, 16:30GMT
[5:59pm] <Balaur>and I'll craft a special meeting just to wake up sundance_kiddo
[5:59pm] <sundance_kiddo>I'm searching for the wave, can't find it
[5:59pm] <Dorene>me too
[5:59pm] <Balaur>hmmm, dm me your gmail address
[6:00pm] <sundance_kiddo>oh yeah, necessarily. I'm half awake all the time anyway
[6:00pm] <sundance_kiddo>dana.timar@gmail
[6:00pm] <Dorene>dorene.demars@gmail.com
[6:00pm] <Balaur>wave says dana.timar@gmail is not a Google Wave account.
[6:00pm] <Balaur>sorry, .com, I need coffee
[6:00pm] <Balaur>added
[6:01pm] <sundance_kiddo>loool :)))
[6:01pm] <sundance_kiddo>thanks
[6:01pm] <Dorene>there it is!
[6:01pm] <sundance_kiddo>right
[6:01pm] <Dorene>Thank you
[6:02pm] <Dorene>Now I just have to figure out how to use it!
[6:02pm] <Balaur>ok, so, I'll post the discussion there and on the p2pu site, start you homework :)
[6:02pm] <sundance_kiddo>yeah, downloading AI already
[6:02pm] <sundance_kiddo>handkerchiefs ready
[6:02pm] <sundance_kiddo>guest student invited
[6:02pm] <sundance_kiddo>:D
[6:03pm] <Dorene>hang in there sundance_kiddo
[6:03pm] <Dorene>:-)
[6:03pm] <Balaur>sundance_kiddo: you're not doing something illegal, aren't you?
[6:04pm] <sundance_kiddo>Dorene: I'm cool, grown up some more since I've last seen the movie :D
[6:04pm] <sundance_kiddo>Balaur: neah, just sharing knowledge with sis
[6:04pm] » Balaur smiles
[6:04pm] <sundance_kiddo>he doesn't like sci fi but is muuuuuch too curious
[6:05pm] <Balaur>sundance_kiddo: what you say here about your boyfriend is logged and public :)
[6:06pm] <sundance_kiddo>oups :D
[6:06pm] <Balaur>ok, let's finish this session, Dorene, sundance_kiddo and zombieToast it was nice to meet you all
[6:07pm] <Balaur>I'm saving this transcript onto the wave now.
[6:07pm] <Dorene>Indeed!@
[6:07pm] <sundance_kiddo>i like måte
[6:07pm] <Dorene>I'm going to spend some time figuring out how to "Wave" :-)
[6:07pm] <zombieToast>likewise
[6:08pm] <sundance_kiddo>nice to meet you all, looking forward to the course
[6:08pm] <Balaur>ok, I'll run now, you can still hangout here in this channel
[6:08pm] <Balaur>bye
[6:08pm] <zombieToast>later
[6:08pm] <Dorene>bye
24 March IRC Log
[4:53pm] <ChanServ>[#cyberpunk] http://newark.pardey.org
[4:53pm] » Laurian_ lost connection
[4:54pm] <Laurian_>I suppose zombieToast is Sjef and I know that sundance_kiddo is Dana; but we're here in cyberspace and we'll use our avatars not our names :)
[4:54pm]Laurian left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[4:54pm]You are now known as Laurian.
[4:54pm] » Laurian should be known as balaur (dragon in Romanian)
[4:55pm]You are now known as Balaur.
[4:59pm] » zombieToast is sjef
[4:59pm] <zombieToast>yeah
[5:01pm] <Balaur>Hello
[5:01pm] <zombieToast>Hi
[5:01pm] <Balaur>how the web business in Netherlands these days?
[5:01pm] <Balaur>how is*
[5:02pm] <zombieToast>heh, depends where your work is really
[5:02pm] <zombieToast>it's all still a bit scrappy at the moment for smaller studios
[5:03pm] <zombieToast>clients are still hanging on tight to their wallets haha
[5:03pm] <Balaur>I know how it is, I've been with grapefruit.ro for 7 years
[5:04pm] » Balaur is wondering what sundance_kiddo is doing…
[5:04pm] <sundance_kiddo>hihi
[5:04pm] <sundance_kiddo>I am rejoicing
[5:04pm] <sundance_kiddo>I just got a job offer
[5:04pm] <sundance_kiddo>aquarian lucky week, this is
[5:05pm] <zombieToast>gg
[5:05pm] <Balaur>in Norway? sundance_kiddo
[5:05pm] <sundance_kiddo>yeap
[5:05pm] <Balaur>sundance_kiddo: aquarian lucky week? hmmm, I hope so, I'm waiting for a response too from an awesome palce
[5:06pm] <sundance_kiddo>i know :) thats why i said its the aquarian lucky week :D
[5:06pm] <Balaur>:)
[5:06pm] <Balaur>ok, so let's get back to the course
[5:06pm] <Balaur>I've been as student in the previous one
[5:07pm] <Balaur>in october-november last year
[5:07pm] <Balaur>it was crazy, we were all crazy people passionately talking about cyberpunk etc
[5:08pm]Dorene joined the chat room.
[5:08pm] <Balaur>it was really peer to peer, so, I'm in this course to set a direction and force all of you collaborate
[5:08pm] <Balaur>hello Dorene
[5:08pm] <Dorene>Hi
[5:08pm] <sundance_kiddo>it will be funny
[5:08pm] » Balaur we are so cyberpunk-ish that we use codenames, I'm Laurian
[5:08pm] <sundance_kiddo>I am so passionate about space opera and dystopias
[5:09pm] » zombieToast is sjef
[5:09pm] <sundance_kiddo>we would be cyberpunks if we used anagrams
[5:09pm] <sundance_kiddo>I am Dana
[5:09pm] <Balaur>Dorene: just before you got here I was saying that the previous course was really peer-to-peer
[5:09pm] <Balaur>we were all crazy people passionately talking about cyberpunk etc
[5:09pm] <Balaur>so, I'm in this course to set a direction and force all of you collaborate; as you all know more than me
[5:09pm] <Dorene>Isn't that what it's supposed to be?
[5:10pm] <Balaur>yup, but apparently in other p2pu courses the things were slower
[5:10pm] <Dorene>Peer to peer is an unusual direction for education
[5:10pm] <Dorene>so I could see why some people might be slow to adapt
[5:10pm] <sundance_kiddo>Dorene: why? I find this is the best way to learn
[5:11pm] <Dorene>Everyone is used to the traditional teacher-student model
[5:11pm] <Balaur>sundance_kiddo: sit down and speak only when asked :) LOL
[5:11pm] <Dorene>I agree it's a fantastic way to learn
[5:11pm] <Dorene>and I encourage the same type of dynamic with my own students
[5:11pm] <Dorene>But we spend most of our lives being "led" through education, so to speak
[5:12pm] <Balaur>Dorene: what are you teaching?
[5:12pm] <zombieToast>not all of us ;)
[5:12pm] <Dorene>peer to peer is defintely out of our comfort zones
[5:12pm] <Dorene>I teach at a local technical college
[5:12pm] <Dorene>engineering design...mostly drafting, cad and critical thinking skills
[5:12pm] <sundance_kiddo>hihi :)
[5:13pm] <Balaur>nice, you know, you could start a P2PU course on this ;)
[5:13pm] <sundance_kiddo>we could help you with the acronyms :))
[5:13pm] » Balaur is checking the bot
[5:13pm] <Balaur>time
[5:13pm] » Balaur is rebooting the bot
[5:14pm]W1NT3RMUT3 left the chat room. ("down for maintenance")
[5:14pm]W1NT3RMUT3 joined the chat room.
[5:14pm] <zombieToast>yeah would be an intersting course, a lot of people are getting interested in cad etc in order to be able to fab stuff
[5:14pm] <Balaur>time
[5:14pm] <W1NT3RMUT3>Balaur: the time is now Wed Mar 24 17:10:29 UTC 2010
[5:14pm] <Dorene>I agree
[5:14pm] <Dorene>figuring out how to make it collaborative is something I'm pondering
[5:15pm] <Balaur>it is "makers" era, from software to hardware, arduino, etc.
[5:15pm] » Balaur should get Makers by Cory Doctorow
[5:15pm] <Dorene>I read Make magazine and wish I had the time, resources, freedom to pursue more of the projects I see there
[5:16pm] <zombieToast>its a good read makers
[5:16pm] <Dorene>and really wish I could adapt them for my students
[5:16pm] <Dorene>I jumped the gun and read "Little Brother"...
[5:16pm] » Balaur is getting an arduino, it will kill all my free time
[5:16pm] <Balaur>good, is part of the course
[5:17pm] <Balaur>so, let me explain why I have those books and movies in the course
[5:17pm] <Dorene>Go for it
[5:18pm] <Balaur>I'm following 2 directions: human vs. human replica and
[5:18pm] <Balaur>"The future is already here - it is just unevenly distributed" (William Gibson quote)
[5:19pm] <Balaur>that's why we move towards almost present time stories (I'll propose additional optional readings)
[5:19pm] <Balaur>and that's why we get real with history, 20 years ago (god, I'm old...) in 1990, the hacker crackdown and freedom downtime
[5:20pm] <zombieToast>haha it's grat how 30ish is now old
[5:20pm] <zombieToast>*great
[5:20pm] <Balaur>those things read as cyberpunk, it is very interesting as study of how society and goverments responded to those events
[5:21pm] <Balaur>William Gibson "Spook Country" is cyberpunk that happens in present, is about iPods, augmented reality, etc
[5:21pm] <Balaur>and so on.
[5:21pm] <zombieToast>I preferred pattern recognition tbh, still very current
[5:21pm] <Dorene>Spook Country is definitely on my list just out of general principal...I haven't read it yet.
[5:22pm] <Dorene>Thats funny zombie toast
[5:22pm] <Balaur>on the human/human replica, A.I. shows both love and hate towards them, Philip K Dick explores more philosophical aspects, Blade Runner shows them more human than human
[5:22pm] <Dorene>I feel like Pattern Recognition is already starting to fee a bit dated
[5:22pm] <Balaur>and Ghost in the Shell 2 forces them to be more human
[5:22pm] <Balaur>(in a very wrong way)
[5:22pm] <zombieToast>yeah, but so is spook country imo, and it only just came out..
[5:22pm] <Dorene>even Little Brother, only two years old, is off slightly
[5:23pm] <Dorene>I'm sure it's a challenge for authors, to write something involving tech that can stand the test of time...even a short lenght of time
[5:23pm] <Balaur>so basically this is the idea, the course is made by you, suggest other stories, write essays point to reviews of books as not everyone will have time to read them all, etc
[5:23pm] <sundance_kiddo>I cried when I saw AI
[5:24pm] <Dorene>I look forward to watching AI again...I only recall it minimally
[5:24pm] <Balaur>sundance_kiddo: I believe everybody did ... and the boy: _it_ is just a machine, right? what makes us human?
[5:25pm] <zombieToast>man i hate that kid
[5:25pm] <Balaur>zombieToast: explain
[5:25pm] <Dorene>for me, viewing the films as "literature" will be a novel concept.
[5:25pm] <sundance_kiddo>weird eyes kid
[5:26pm] <Balaur>Dorene: we had films in the previous course too, we had Matrix, Blade Runner
[5:26pm] <sundance_kiddo>Balaur what info repository shall be use? only p2pu.org? for the essays i mean
[5:26pm] <Balaur>p2pu.org site is still, let's say beta... write your work safely somewhere, google docs, etc, your own blog, and repost it to p2pu
[5:27pm] <sundance_kiddo>you were telling us about the previous course, also. what did you produce at the end?
[5:27pm] <Balaur>at the end we had to write our own cyberpunk story
[5:27pm] <Balaur>it was tough and fun
[5:27pm] <Dorene>I am feeling very "yikes" about that!
[5:28pm] <zombieToast>Balaur: found him very annoying, I guess that part of being a dumb naive android kid. Only char. in the movie that talks sense is the sidekick bear
[5:28pm] <Dorene>I am an avid consumer...creating will be a challenge
[5:28pm] <Balaur>you can do an essay or something, you don't have to create one
[5:28pm] <sundance_kiddo>Balaur: thought so about the site, i managed to introduce myself three times :))
[5:28pm] <Balaur>sundance_kiddo: the site was developed around the clock, and yeah, there are still issues, blame Drupal...
[5:29pm] <sundance_kiddo>not sure if I am the writer type, I'd rather do a comparison or some analysis
[5:29pm] <Balaur>zombieToast: it was supposed to be annoying, as a game character playing on a simple set of rules
[5:29pm] <zombieToast>you can get an account on the bug tracker if you want to mark up stuff you nitice is boken
[5:29pm] <Balaur>zombieToast: like a bot, it reacts the same to the same stimuli
[5:30pm] <Balaur>zombieToast: I prefer to email them, it make them feel more guilty :)
[5:30pm] <Balaur>so, Dorene, for the end assignment we'll have other options than a short story
[5:30pm] <zombieToast>Balaur: Yeah i dunno, it didn't come off as consistent within the world of the movie, given de state of the other ai's around the kid is just too dumb
[5:31pm] <zombieToast>he's supposed to represent the state of the art
[5:31pm] <Dorene>I am going to stay open to the idea of writing one...I'm just saying it scares the hell out of me! :-)
[5:31pm] <Balaur>zombieToast: he was a prototype
[5:31pm] <sundance_kiddo>zombieToast must be because of the actor, he is unnerving
[5:32pm] <Balaur>Dorene: I was the same, I had some ideas but never wrote them down, and then when the deadline arrived, I just wrote it and it felt so good that I'm planning to write more
[5:33pm] <Dorene>@Balaur Right now, I don't even have ideas...but hope to generate some as we move through the course
[5:34pm] <Balaur>so, for next week, we should read that short story and see AI, I'll post the assignment tonight as well with a larger description of this week, with more optional readings from the same book (burning chrome)
[5:34pm] <Dorene>So can we talk about meeting time? Today this time worked out fine
[5:34pm] <Dorene>but next week I am back at school...even 30 minutes earlier would be better for me
[5:35pm] <Balaur>yup, there are some people I still have no idea on what timezone they are, but apart of them and me, sundance_kiddo and zombieToast, all are from US
[5:35pm] <Balaur>so, I guess we can move the meeting at a later hour
[5:35pm] <Dorene>not later!
[5:35pm] <zombieToast>np
[5:35pm] <Balaur>sok
[5:35pm] <Dorene>earlier please
[5:35pm] <sundance_kiddo>or we could have two meetings
[5:35pm] <Balaur>ok, I'll draw everyone on a map
[5:35pm] <sundance_kiddo>i actually don't mind
[5:35pm] <zombieToast>yeah I'm easy as well
[5:36pm] <Dorene>Later and I can't participate...just 30 minutes earlier would be better for me
[5:36pm] <Balaur>yup, sundance_kiddo that would be ok, I can summarise from one meetting to anotehr what we discussed
[5:36pm] <Balaur>and I'll post the transcripts online
[5:36pm] » Balaur pings the bot
[5:36pm] <Balaur>time
[5:36pm] <W1NT3RMUT3>Balaur: the time is now Wed Mar 24 17:32:25 UTC 2010
[5:36pm] » Balaur bot alive, good
[5:36pm] <Dorene>okay, explain the bot to me
[5:37pm] <Balaur>first it's name recalls Wintermute from Neuromancer
[5:37pm] <Dorene>I knew I recognized that name
[5:37pm] <Dorene>I just recently read neuromancer
[5:38pm] <Balaur>and technically is a small java program that listens to what we talk, and logs it line by line in a semantic web store on talis.com platform
[5:38pm] <Balaur>additionally it tags each line by using the zemanta.com API
[5:38pm] <zombieToast>yeah, can you post docs on that?
[5:39pm] <Balaur>not to the bot, but on the talis store you can store blobs apart of RDF ata
[5:39pm] <Balaur>data
[5:39pm] <Dorene>wow
[5:39pm] <Balaur>we did it just for fun :)
[5:39pm] <Dorene>I think I understood about 1/3 of what you just typed
[5:39pm] <Balaur>Nadeem which was in the previous course works for talis
[5:40pm] <Balaur>Dorene: ok, talis.com provides a service to store and query data
[5:40pm] <Dorene>found it
[5:40pm] <Balaur>that data in in RDF format, used as building block for the Semantic Web (dream, idea, etc)
[5:40pm] <Dorene>I'll poke around
[5:41pm] <Balaur>the data is basically statements: Subject Predicate Object
[5:41pm] <sundance_kiddo>I'll need to have the IT guy living in my house compile this information
[5:41pm] <Balaur>so a chat line is: LineID hasContent "what you said"; LineID hasAuthor Dorene; LineID hasDate currentDate; tc
[5:42pm] <Dorene>Does it make it easier to search? Is that the idea?
[5:42pm] <Balaur>and I can query like select * where {line? hasAuthor "Dorene"} and I get all you said
[5:43pm] <Balaur>yup, you can easily build tools, visualisations over that data, as the structure is very simple
[5:43pm] <Balaur>hmmm, we can as side project in the course to play with this data
[5:43pm] <Dorene>That might be cool
[5:44pm] <Balaur>so, back to meeting times
[5:44pm] <Balaur>you would prefer earlyer?
[5:45pm] <Balaur>earlier (ahhh, I'm not a native english speaker)
[5:45pm] <Dorene>I would, but only because I have to be teaching at [11:00(PDT)] 6:00GMT
[5:46pm] <zombieToast>Did you use diigo in the last cycle btw?
[5:46pm] <Balaur>hahaha, looking in the bot logs, it got the word "native" and mapped as sense to dmoz/Top/Society/Religion_and_Spirituality/Christianity/People/Native_Americans
[5:46pm] <Balaur>zombieToast: nope, I'm not aware of it
[5:46pm] <Balaur>Dorene: Thursdays would be better?
[5:47pm] <Dorene>Nope...Thursdays wouldn't be better at all. I teach all morning on Thursdays. Wednesday I don't start until late, but meeting at 10:00 puts me right up against my start time
[5:48pm] <Dorene>if we could start a little earlier it would work great...
[5:48pm] <Balaur>ok, I'll ask the people to discuss it further on the etherpad
[5:48pm] <Dorene>just a tiny bit :-)
[5:48pm] <zombieToast>Balaur: diigo.com, allows you to share annotated/tagged bookmarks - good for marking pages for research.
[5:49pm] <Balaur>zombieToast: nice, I'll check it
[5:49pm] <zombieToast>would be good to have a group for the course
[5:49pm] <sundance_kiddo>zombieToast wonder if a wiki page wouldn't be better
[5:49pm] <Balaur>zombieToast: is it different from delicious?
[5:49pm] <sundance_kiddo>in my experience, groups become quickly extinct
[5:50pm] <zombieToast>I find it works a lot quicker than a wiki
[5:51pm] <zombieToast>once it's filled out it can't really go extinct, maybe just kind of stale
[5:51pm] <Balaur>wikis are hard to collaborate, to much space to write scare people
[5:52pm] <Balaur>zombieToast: we could actually create our own tool :)
[5:52pm] <sundance_kiddo>2 messages per year? :)
[5:53pm] <sundance_kiddo>pity actually that p2pu is a bit draggy
[5:53pm] <zombieToast>run it off our hand built decks..
[5:54pm] <zombieToast>brb got to go stab someone for 3megs of ram haha
[5:54pm] <Balaur>sundance_kiddo: they will fix it
[5:54pm] <Balaur>zombieToast: 3megs ram? kidding?
[5:55pm] <sundance_kiddo>right, well, to sum up: for me, any meeting time is cool. I can even wake up at night, since we are getting close to 16 hrs daylight :))
[5:55pm] <Balaur>sundance_kiddo: noted. :D [evil laugh]
[5:55pm] <sundance_kiddo>offline collaboration - wiki table, p2pu, Gdocs etc
[5:56pm] <Balaur>gwave also, I made one, if you search for cyberpunk p2pu you should find it, it is public
[5:56pm] <sundance_kiddo>:D no issue, i got a full reserve of black tea :D still waiting for an espresso machine
[5:56pm] <sundance_kiddo>cool!
[5:56pm] <Balaur>I already added zombieToast to it
[5:56pm] <Balaur>ok, so should we wrap this for today?
[5:57pm] <Balaur>I'll post the discussion on the p2pu site, ok?
[5:57pm] <zombieToast>ah the wave. maybe finally I'll find out what it;s for...
[5:57pm] <Balaur>and I'll post more details on optional readings by next week and detail the assignment
[5:57pm] <Balaur>is Dorene still here?
[5:58pm] <Dorene>Yes
[5:58pm] <Balaur>so, we'll keep this meeting time for next week and add an additional one to accomodate the other if needed
[5:58pm] <Balaur>actually 30' earlier than this, 16:30GMT
[5:59pm] <Balaur>and I'll craft a special meeting just to wake up sundance_kiddo
[5:59pm] <sundance_kiddo>I'm searching for the wave, can't find it
[5:59pm] <Dorene>me too
[5:59pm] <Balaur>hmmm, dm me your gmail address
[6:00pm] <sundance_kiddo>oh yeah, necessarily. I'm half awake all the time anyway
[6:00pm] <sundance_kiddo>dana.timar@gmail
[6:00pm] <Dorene>dorene.demars@gmail.com
[6:00pm] <Balaur>wave says dana.timar@gmail is not a Google Wave account.
[6:00pm] <Balaur>sorry, .com, I need coffee
[6:00pm] <Balaur>added
[6:01pm] <sundance_kiddo>loool :)))
[6:01pm] <sundance_kiddo>thanks
[6:01pm] <Dorene>there it is!
[6:01pm] <sundance_kiddo>right
[6:01pm] <Dorene>Thank you
[6:02pm] <Dorene>Now I just have to figure out how to use it!
[6:02pm] <Balaur>ok, so, I'll post the discussion there and on the p2pu site, start you homework :)
[6:02pm] <sundance_kiddo>yeah, downloading AI already
[6:02pm] <sundance_kiddo>handkerchiefs ready
[6:02pm] <sundance_kiddo>guest student invited
[6:02pm] <sundance_kiddo>:D
[6:03pm] <Dorene>hang in there sundance_kiddo
[6:03pm] <Dorene>:-)
[6:03pm] <Balaur>sundance_kiddo: you're not doing something illegal, aren't you?
[6:04pm] <sundance_kiddo>Dorene: I'm cool, grown up some more since I've last seen the movie :D
[6:04pm] <sundance_kiddo>Balaur: neah, just sharing knowledge with sis
[6:04pm] » Balaur smiles
[6:04pm] <sundance_kiddo>he doesn't like sci fi but is muuuuuch too curious
[6:05pm] <Balaur>sundance_kiddo: what you say here about your boyfriend is logged and public :)
[6:06pm] <sundance_kiddo>oups :D
[6:06pm] <Balaur>ok, let's finish this session, Dorene, sundance_kiddo and zombieToast it was nice to meet you all
[6:07pm] <Balaur>I'm saving this transcript onto the wave now.
[6:07pm] <Dorene>Indeed!@
[6:07pm] <sundance_kiddo>i like måte
[6:07pm] <Dorene>I'm going to spend some time figuring out how to "Wave" :-)
[6:07pm] <zombieToast>likewise
[6:08pm] <sundance_kiddo>nice to meet you all, looking forward to the course
[6:08pm] <Balaur>ok, I'll run now, you can still hangout here in this channel
[6:08pm] <Balaur>bye
[6:08pm] <zombieToast>later
[6:08pm] <Dorene>bye