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Introduction to Cyberpunk Literature - Mar 2010

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 [5:30pm] <Dorene>Darn it!

[5:31pm] <Laurian>food talk

[5:31pm] <zombieToast>so far, whale is tasty & I hate AI :)

[5:31pm] <Dorene>AI is 2 hours & 25 minutes long

[5:31pm] <Dorene>haven't watched it yet :-(

[5:31pm] <Laurian>zombieToast: would say never watch it :)

[5:31pm] <Dorene>I need to just decide to do it in 2 or 3 sittings

[5:31pm] <sundance_kiddo>zombieToast laughed myself dead at the parody movie you posted

[5:31pm] <Laurian>it is a cyberpunk Pinnochio

[5:32pm] <sundance_kiddo>hi Dorene :)

[5:32pm] <zombieToast>I thought it was funny what Brian Aldiss said

[5:32pm] <Laurian>and a bit too sweet (blame Spielberg) and with a happy end (not that cyberpunk)

[5:32pm] <sundance_kiddo>Dorene Sjef has posted an "AI in a nutshell"

[5:32pm] <Dorene>Kind of the Cliff Notes version? ;-)

[5:32pm] <zombieToast>haha yeah kind of

[5:33pm] <Dorene>I did enjoy the Wired article someone linked earlier this week about little boy

[5:34pm] <Dorene>and I've started reading Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep

[5:34pm] <Laurian>I love Philip K. Dick

[5:34pm] <Dorene>but I keep getting derailed from watching AI by the availability of Farscape on Netflix Instant Play :-D

[5:34pm] <zombieToast>I havn't read much of his stuff tbh, definately on the list

[5:34pm] <sundance_kiddo>started reading that too, pretty cool

[5:35pm] <Laurian>I will lookup some short stories of Philip K Dick, lovely things with crazy end twists

[5:35pm] <sundance_kiddo>do that, I'm also curious for some more

[5:35pm] <Dorene>I haven't run across much of his stuff...in fact, the copy I am reading is the only one that was available at the library

[5:36pm] <Dorene>they had to dig it out of the basement and it's a Large Print novel

[5:36pm] <zombieToast>abebooks.com

[5:36pm] <Laurian>btw, on top of my memory, movies after Philip K Dick: Blade Runner, Total Recall, Impostor, Screamers, Paycheck, Minority Report, A Scanner Darkly

[5:36pm] <Dorene>that's almost as hard to read as super small print!

[5:36pm] <sundance_kiddo>I think I'll have to order the books, my eyes become fuzzy when reading off the screen

[5:36pm] <sundance_kiddo>yuhuu

[5:36pm] <sundance_kiddo>havent seen impostor and screamer

[5:37pm] <zombieToast>screamers was ok, haven't seen impostor either

[5:37pm] <Laurian>I rented Screamers by mistake a century ago (on VHS), and seen it 7 times in one night...

[5:37pm] <Dorene>I love how this class is opening up new directions for my reading...I have Diamond Age by Neal Stephenson just taunting me on my table...

[5:37pm] » Laurian is mad.

[5:38pm] <sundance_kiddo>mad professor? :D

[5:38pm] <Laurian>yeah, mad scientist

[5:38pm] <Laurian>mad doctor even

[5:38pm] <zombieToast>by the way, there is quite a bit piled up here now: http://groups.diigo.com/group/p2pu-cyberpunk

[5:39pm] <Laurian>zombieToast: remind me to broadcast that link

[5:40pm] <zombieToast>k.

[5:40pm] <Dorene>So is it only the four of us in this time slot?

[5:40pm] <sundance_kiddo>:) just like last time

[5:40pm] <zombieToast>last week 2 guys showed up in here on thursday

[5:40pm] <sundance_kiddo>feels like private classes

[5:40pm] <zombieToast>forget who..

[5:41pm] <Laurian>apparently yes, I'll try to message now everyone directly to work out time slots

[5:41pm] <Laurian>eventually see if they prefer weekends

[5:41pm] » Laurian is always online

[5:42pm] <Dorene>If I weren't careful, I would always be online too...sometimes I just have to say to myself, "Step away fromt the computer and go outside already!"

[5:42pm] <zombieToast>same, if I'm awake there's like 80% chance I'm stuck behind a sceen

[5:42pm] <Laurian>and the iPad will be glued to my pillow

[5:43pm] <sundance_kiddo>I had almost forgotten our meeting today if it weren't for twitter

[5:43pm] <Laurian>I already woke up in the middle of the night to check on twitter

[5:43pm] <sundance_kiddo>it's holidays starting tomorrow! Yay!

[5:43pm] <Dorene>are we tweeting?

[5:43pm] <Laurian>I tweeted sundance_kiddo to join the chat

[5:43pm] <Dorene>I need to start following people

[5:43pm] <sundance_kiddo>laur is and i am

[5:43pm] <sundance_kiddo>dunno about sjef

[5:43pm] <zombieToast>only use it to broadcast stuff for our studio

[5:44pm] <zombieToast>@largetosti

[5:44pm] <zombieToast>got a personal account but I only use that for submitting to thaumatrope

[5:45pm] <Laurian>ok, I;m folowing you now

[5:45pm] » Laurian is @gridinoc on twitter

[5:45pm] <zombieToast>cool, we'll start using it more extensively in the near future

[5:45pm] <sundance_kiddo>me too

[5:45pm] <Laurian>so, how did everyone feel about the current assignment

[5:45pm] <sundance_kiddo>the essay? :)

[5:46pm] <Dorene>I approached it differently than I think maybe it was intended

[5:46pm] <zombieToast>mine came out different to what I had in mind

[5:47pm] <Dorene>I wrote it from what I felt my perspective is before reading Gernsback and watching AI...kind of considered it a launching pad for my perceptions of what cyberpunk is

[5:47pm] <sundance_kiddo>loved both your essays

[5:47pm] <sundance_kiddo>i also read the essays from the course back in september

[5:47pm] <sundance_kiddo>and i felt like i hadn't enough info to create my own essay yet

[5:47pm] <Dorene>I chose not to read the essays from september before I wrote mine

[5:48pm] <sundance_kiddo>this is a good one: http://blogs.p2pu.org/cyberpunk/2009/09/14/the-contrast-between-science-fiction-and-cyberpunk/

[5:48pm] <Dorene>and wrote my from an intuitive frame of mind

[5:48pm] <sundance_kiddo>best i've read actually

[5:48pm] <zombieToast>yeah I started reading them, then skimmed a bit & stopped

[5:48pm] <Laurian>by Alexa, yup, she's awesome

[5:48pm] <Dorene>I was a little distressed when I did skim a few and found all the bibliographical information and cross referencing

[5:49pm] <Dorene>worried I interpreted the assignment wrong

[5:49pm] <Dorene>after thinking about it, though, I wouldn't go back and do it differently...we're at the start, not the end

[5:50pm] <zombieToast>its kind of the nature of this course as well though isn't it? there isnt really right/wrong of doing it

[5:50pm] <zombieToast>just learning

[5:50pm] <Laurian>btw, part of overall peer 2 peer thing is that you all should comment on the essays of the others, on the site.

[5:51pm] <sundance_kiddo>yeah, Alexa's

[5:51pm] <zombieToast>was waiting for other submissions before starting to comment

[5:51pm] <Laurian>zombieToast: I think of this course as a reading club, and we have some peer pressure to actually read and discuss things

[5:52pm] <Laurian>zombieToast: I extended the deadline, last year some of us were 1-2 weeks late

[5:52pm] <Laurian>and for the final assignment we got like 4 weeks late

[5:52pm] <zombieToast>haha k

[5:52pm] <Dorene>I like the reading club idea, but for myself I would like to treat more as a practice for potential further formal education

[5:53pm] <sundance_kiddo>there isn't any right or wrong, but I fear that I might miss smth out

[5:53pm] <Dorene>I want you guys to push me a little! :-)

[5:53pm] <sundance_kiddo>although I did jot some ideas down

[5:53pm] <sundance_kiddo>told you I'm concerned with the whole utopia/dystopia thing

[5:53pm] <Laurian>Dorene, I see, hmmm, additional assignments?

[5:53pm] <sundance_kiddo>and I will make my interpretation in that light

[5:53pm] <Dorene>Laurian how do you do that?

[5:53pm] <sundance_kiddo>methinks...

[5:53pm] <Dorene>send me those messages with your name in red?

[5:54pm] <Laurian>Dorene: yup :)

[5:54pm] <Laurian>all those cyberpunk books are full of ideas

[5:55pm] <sundance_kiddo>thats why I loved scifi

[5:55pm] <Dorene>sundance, I know what you mean...but I almost feel like the first reading and movie are kind of sources that perch us on the precipace of cyberpunk

[5:55pm] <Laurian>we could do a status report thing online, with progress bars on assignments, and you could see that sundance_kiddo is 20% completion on first one while you finished it

[5:55pm] <sundance_kiddo>it's sort of philosophical

[5:55pm] <sundance_kiddo>Laurian: pfblaaaaaaaaaa

[5:56pm] <zombieToast>haha

[5:56pm] <Laurian>sundance_kiddo & Dorene and having a discussion thread on what page on the current book are you today :)

[5:56pm] <Laurian>and a quiz to test that you actually read it :P

[5:56pm] » Laurian is kidding

[5:56pm] <Dorene>LOL

[5:57pm] <Dorene>I am reading it! It's the movies that seem to be harder for me...

[5:58pm] <Laurian>it the reverse with me

[5:58pm] <sundance_kiddo>hahaha :))

[5:58pm] <Dorene>I like that both are there, though...

[5:58pm] <Laurian>I love to read but it is so hard to finish a book without checking my computer 200 times

[5:59pm] <Laurian>the movie is more immersive in this aspect

[5:59pm] <Dorene>That's funny...I find books more immersive for me. I get distracted by shiny things while watching movies

[6:00pm] <Laurian>so, everyone is on the Do Androids Dream ....?

[6:00pm] <zombieToast>yeah, read it

[6:00pm] <Dorene>Reading it...still in the intro phase of it

[6:00pm] <sundance_kiddo>yeah, on it

[6:00pm] <sundance_kiddo>online unfortunately

[6:01pm] <Laurian>what would you expect that the assignment regarding this book and Blade Runner would be? what would you like it to be?

[6:01pm] <sundance_kiddo>hate reading books online, pdf, whatever

[6:01pm] <zombieToast>I had it on pdf as well

[6:01pm] <Laurian>sundance_kiddo: kill a tree

[6:01pm] <Dorene>Library book for me

[6:01pm] <sundance_kiddo>I'll order :D

[6:01pm] <Dorene>I am cheap

[6:02pm] <Dorene>do I remember correctly that Androids Dream is the inspiration for Blade Runner?

[6:02pm] <sundance_kiddo>Dorene: I'd do the same thing, but they have it in Norwegian I think and I'm not that advanced :))

[6:02pm] <sundance_kiddo>yup, it is

[6:02pm] <sundance_kiddo>partially

[6:02pm] <zombieToast>not a fan of reading onscreen either, but I have kind of taken to reading on my phone

[6:02pm] <zombieToast>autoscrolling ftw

[6:03pm] <sundance_kiddo>oh? iphone, like?

[6:03pm] <sundance_kiddo>you give me ideas

[6:03pm] <zombieToast>blackberry in my case

[6:03pm] <Laurian>I have on my desk: Do Androids..., Future Noir - The Making of Blade Runner, and Retrofitting Blade Runner... and I wonder what should I ask for the assignment

[6:03pm] <sundance_kiddo>saving pdf to dropbox and reading from there

[6:04pm] » Laurian loves how the discussion drifts into tech things, that's so cyberpunk of you :P

[6:04pm] <sundance_kiddo>hihi

[6:05pm] <Dorene>I like to call myself "retro"...my phone is 3 years old and not data plan connected

[6:05pm] <sundance_kiddo>you cling to the real world ei?

[6:05pm] <Dorene>once again, I'm cheap ;-)...no, wait, "retro"

[6:06pm] <sundance_kiddo>well, Laurian, to answer your question

[6:06pm] <Laurian>retro, how about some steampunk optional readings

[6:06pm] <sundance_kiddo>I'd go for several threads

[6:06pm] <Dorene>I just reada brand new steampunk

[6:06pm] <Dorene>"Boneshaker" by Cherie Priest

[6:06pm] <Dorene>Loved it!

[6:06pm] <Dorene>combination steampunk and zombies!

[6:07pm] <zombieToast>difference engine was ok

[6:07pm] <zombieToast>never really went past that

[6:07pm] <Dorene>I had to tough out difference engine

[6:07pm] <Laurian>hmmm, I'll make one assignment in which everyone would have to talk about their favourite books, movies and recommend them, but without spoilers

[6:08pm] <sundance_kiddo>brb phone call

[6:08pm] » Laurian ... boneshaker added to amazon wishlist

[6:08pm] <Laurian>in the previous course

[6:08pm] <Dorene>good call on your wishlist, Laurian

[6:09pm] <zombieToast>I'm looking out for an android specific assignment as well, I'm interested in figuring out where the line is they have to pass to be cyberpunk

[6:09pm] <Laurian>electric sheep and blade runner were the material for the assignment which you already had

[6:09pm] <Dorene>wait?

[6:09pm] <Dorene>They were?

[6:09pm] <Laurian>yup

[6:09pm] <zombieToast>??

[6:09pm] <Dorene>I thought the assignment was before the material

[6:09pm] <Dorene>and the next one will be based on those items

[6:10pm] <Laurian>yes

[6:10pm] <Laurian>in the previous course, last year

[6:10pm] <Laurian>these were used for the essay what is cyberpunk

[6:10pm] <Laurian>and I thought it is too easy

[6:10pm] <Dorene>Oh, I see

[6:10pm] <Laurian>that's why I went for ambigous ones, like Gernsback and AI

[6:11pm] <Dorene>in round one they were the material for what the assignment we just did was

[6:11pm] <Laurian>so, now, for these materials, I think that I;ll ask on the cyberpunk settings

[6:11pm] <Laurian>like http://blogs.p2pu.org/cyberpunk/coursework/week-3-23rd-30th-september/

[6:11pm] <Laurian>but focused on blade runner style, as it is timeless

[6:12pm] <Laurian>and with hints towards society if anyone wants to explore that direction

[6:12pm] <Laurian>what do you think?

[6:14pm] <Dorene>I think it will be interesting to try and ferret that out for myself...interesting and hard.

[6:14pm] <Laurian>both AI and blade runner can question on what makes us human

[6:15pm] <Laurian>zombieToast: any input?

[6:15pm] <zombieToast>srry, sidetracked

[6:16pm] <Laurian>zombieToast: given electric sheep and blade runner what would you like to write about them?

[6:16pm] <zombieToast>just a sec

[6:17pm] <Dorene>Who are we as humans to create life, even cybernetic life, and what are our responsibilities to our creations?

[6:17pm] <Laurian>ok, lost zombieToast and sundance_kiddo to other tech toys

[6:18pm] <zombieToast>still in the studio, had to sort something out :)

[6:18pm] <Laurian>Dorene: are them lifeforms?

[6:18pm] <sundance_kiddo>still here

[6:18pm] <Dorene>How do you do that???

[6:18pm] <sundance_kiddo>just a parallel skype conversation with sis :D

[6:18pm] <Dorene>But yes, at what point do we call them life forms?

[6:19pm] <sundance_kiddo>I'd write about the human condition

[6:19pm] <Dorene>Banging head

[6:19pm] <sundance_kiddo>or about what is real and what not

[6:20pm] <zombieToast>so ueah, I'm interested in both the marriage of flesh&steel, and the consequences of man creating artificial life, and when/where those tropes were introduced in order to relate them to the cyberpunk genre. Both have been around much longer & I want to figure out if there are any specific qualifiers

[6:20pm] <Laurian>the issue I believe is not about life definition, but about consciousness which can presumably exist independent of lifeform status

[6:20pm] <zombieToast>yeah, like in a virtual realm

[6:21pm] <Laurian>there is a nice short discussion on this in Ghost in the Shell (the first one)

[6:21pm] <zombieToast>there's several throughout the series :)

[6:22pm] <Laurian>the whole series is madness, I would propose it as a separate course :)

[6:23pm] <zombieToast>haha ok, i'm not suggesting everyone has to watch it

[6:23pm] <zombieToast>I just happened to get stuck in recently

[6:23pm] <Dorene>I can watch a lot of those on Instant play...maybe put them on in the background while grading papers

[6:24pm] <Laurian>Ghost in the Shell (philosophical scenes) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHfs7OQ_Cwk from minute 3:25

[6:24pm] <zombieToast>marked for later

[6:25pm] <sundance_kiddo>also here, haven't seen GiS either

[6:25pm] <zombieToast>must see material.

[6:25pm] <Laurian>the whole series is strange, but we have on GiTS 2 Innocence

[6:25pm] <Laurian>on the course

[6:25pm] <Laurian>which is kinda different

[6:25pm] <sundance_kiddo>have seen excerpts

[6:25pm] <sundance_kiddo>by the way

[6:26pm] <sundance_kiddo>can anyone explain what the deal is with the asian signalistics all around blade runner?

[6:26pm] <sundance_kiddo>noodles and asian persons and dragons and and and

[6:26pm] <sundance_kiddo>?

[6:26pm] <Dorene>what do you mean?

[6:26pm] <Dorene>i wonder

[6:26pm] <sundance_kiddo>the city is full of neon

[6:27pm] <Dorene>if it is similar to Firefly...

[6:27pm] <Laurian>sundance_kiddo: in the book the street talk is a mixture of japanese, german, arabic and english as far as I remember

[6:27pm] <sundance_kiddo>:) seen Firefly Dorene?

[6:27pm] <Dorene>with the asian population percentage of the world, the culture just permeates

[6:27pm] <Laurian>Dorene: correct

[6:27pm] <sundance_kiddo>funny to see the degree to which

[6:27pm] <sundance_kiddo>it does

[6:27pm] <zombieToast>thats what I thought

[6:27pm] <Dorene>Firefly, Serenity...I love the Joss Whedon

[6:27pm] <zombieToast>just look at who makes all your stuff

[6:28pm] <Dorene>I mean hell, we are going to watch an anime for the course

[6:28pm] <Dorene>hello kitty

[6:28pm] <sundance_kiddo>hear hear!

[6:28pm] <Dorene>lots of cultural leakage

[6:28pm] <Laurian>yeah, speaking of hello kitty, one sec

[6:29pm] <Laurian>http://www.kittyhell.com/2010/02/01/hello-kitty-chainsaw/

[6:29pm] <zombieToast>you do realize anime has a somewhat broader scope than western cartoons right?

[6:29pm] <Dorene>me?

[6:29pm] <zombieToast>anyone comparing gits to hello kitty

[6:30pm] <Dorene>Oh yeah...

[6:30pm] <zombieToast>(nice chainsaw btw)

[6:30pm] <Dorene>I was using Hello Kitty as an example of asian cultural icons leaking into mainstream...

[6:31pm] <zombieToast>ah, my bad

[6:31pm] <Dorene>Oh, Hello Kitty Hell...I like it

[6:32pm] <Dorene>Okay, folks, I have got to shut down, leave this coffee shop and go to work

[6:32pm] <Laurian>ok, Dorene I'll broadcast the new assignment tomorrow

[6:32pm] <Dorene>@WaywardScutrGrl on twitter for me

[6:32pm] <Dorene>Same time next week?

[6:33pm] <Laurian>yup

[6:33pm] <Dorene>Excellent!

[6:33pm] <Dorene>Bye all!

[6:33pm] <Laurian>bye

[6:33pm] <zombieToast>bye

[6:33pm]Dorene left the chat room. (Quit: Page closed)

[6:33pm] <sundance_kiddo>Laurian dunno if i make it

[6:33pm] » zombieToast wants some whale sausages now

[6:33pm] <sundance_kiddo>next week

[6:34pm] <sundance_kiddo>I'll be in Ro

[6:34pm] <sundance_kiddo>but Ill see what I can do

[6:34pm] <Laurian>yeah, no internet there

[6:34pm] <Laurian>:P

[6:34pm] <Laurian>kidding

[6:34pm] <Laurian>do your homework please

[6:35pm] <sundance_kiddo>yes sir

[6:35pm] <sundance_kiddo>you mean the essay right?

[6:35pm] <sundance_kiddo>and reading?

[6:35pm] <Laurian>everything!

[6:35pm] <sundance_kiddo>yeah there is internet, but I'll be mostly out

[6:35pm] <sundance_kiddo>though Ihave to chek

[6:35pm] <Laurian>and do vote for Cluj's thing

[6:35pm] <sundance_kiddo>check

[6:36pm] <sundance_kiddo>maybe irc works on iphone

[6:36pm] <Laurian>sundance_kiddo: http://brainwash.ro/petitie/

[6:36pm] <Laurian>zombieToast: sorry we got sidetracked

[6:36pm] <zombieToast>np, happens

[6:36pm] <Laurian>zombieToast: are you OK with writing on the cyberpunk atmosphere on blade runner/electric sheep?

[6:37pm] <Laurian>I'll add some extra optional directions in the assignment

[6:37pm] <zombieToast>oh yeah dude I'll write whatever the assignment is

[6:37pm] <Laurian>zombieToast: lovely

[6:37pm] <Laurian>I'll run now (to Oxford)

[6:38pm] <sundance_kiddo>yeah, so enjoy your foods guys

[6:38pm] <sundance_kiddo>seeya next week :)

[6:38pm] <Laurian>sundance_kiddo: yup, have fun back home

[6:38pm] <sundance_kiddo>Laurian you will post the log to the course right?

[6:38pm] <Laurian>yup

[6:38pm] <sundance_kiddo>yeah thanks

[6:38pm] <zombieToast>remeber to post up teh diigo group ;)

[6:38pm] <Laurian>zombieToast: sure.

[6:38pm] <sundance_kiddo>seeya

[6:38pm] <Laurian>I'll link it in the assignment broadcast

[6:38pm] <zombieToast>k well see you later guys

[6:39pm] <Laurian>bye

[6:39pm]sundance_kiddo left the chat room. (Quit: Page closed)

[6:39pm]

zombieToast left the chat room. (Quit: zombieToast)