Go back to: General discussion
JoiIto 2010-07-25T23:14:20+0000
hello
JoiIto 2010-07-25T23:44:47+0000
hey everyone
JoiIto 2010-07-25T23:44:57+0000
let me know if anyone wants to talk about their projects on skype
JoiIto 2010-07-25T23:45:02+0000
we don't have anyone queued up
JoiIto 2010-07-25T23:45:13+0000
otherwise I'm going to talk a bit about online communities here with sean bonner
seanbonner 2010-07-25T23:48:09+0000
o hai
gueorgui 2010-07-25T23:51:38+0000
good morning
onerick 2010-07-25T23:52:32+0000
hey sean. just browsing metblogs for the first time. good stuff
seanbonner 2010-07-25T23:52:51+0000
Thanks!
seanbonner 2010-07-25T23:53:04+0000
Some cities are better than others
Andriak 2010-07-25T23:54:42+0000
Hi all. Thunderstorms looming (again), but here for now.
seanbonner 2010-07-25T23:56:27+0000
Hi everyone
seanbonner 2010-07-25T23:56:32+0000
I'll be watching IRC
Catharina 2010-07-25T23:56:35+0000
hello :-)
seanbonner 2010-07-25T23:56:37+0000
and stuff
seanbonner 2010-07-25T23:58:05+0000
Welcome everyone
seanbonner 2010-07-25T23:58:39+0000
Video working for everyone?
seanbonner 2010-07-25T23:59:34+0000
Anyone have any thoughts on this?
onerick 2010-07-26T00:00:01+0000
video is working, but foggy
gueorgui 2010-07-26T00:00:07+0000
for me it's the timezone (europe, it's 2am)
onerick 2010-07-26T00:00:25+0000
(ah it's a video feed of a projector screen)
Andriak 2010-07-26T00:00:40+0000
Shared early thought on forums about real life classes done with remote classes at same time: diminishes engagement of real life students (based on a high school class my daughter had.)
janak 2010-07-26T00:02:11+0000
good morning everyone
Andriak 2010-07-26T00:08:45+0000
Heh. Early morning local time probably the biggest hurdle.
GoldieKatsu 2010-07-26T00:09:37+0000
I know I was bad at early morning classes when I was in college.
Lena 2010-07-26T00:11:31+0000
yup, the report is almost done
Hala 2010-07-26T00:14:04+0000
I too think it was a good learning experience overall. I think this is how people will be communicating in the future.
seanbonner 2010-07-26T00:14:05+0000
Hi Quinn
quinn-n 2010-07-26T00:14:12+0000
hello
quinn-n 2010-07-26T00:15:38+0000
this still feels a little like early days of tv, when people worked fairly hard to stare at what was sometimes just a screen of mostly fuzz, and no one knew how it would work out.
Andriak 2010-07-26T00:15:40+0000
Guest speakers were awesome. Have serious doubts anyone else could bring that kind of international diversity.
gueorgui 2010-07-26T00:16:05+0000
Yeah, I'm with Andriak on this one. Guest speakers is what made this class great.
quinn-n 2010-07-26T00:17:10+0000
actually there's somehting intrinsically interesting about this being more of a conversation than a traditional class, that's not to be overlooked
onerick 2010-07-26T00:17:16+0000
For links, perhaps bookmark links on delicious.com as 'p2p2journalism-class1'. Sort of 'show notes'
onerick 2010-07-26T00:17:41+0000
can feed them through the p2pu drupal platform
Andriak 2010-07-26T00:17:42+0000
New learning management tool launched early July: nixty.com. Lovely design, but built so far for top down communication.
GoldieKatsu 2010-07-26T00:17:44+0000
I wonder if there is a way to help the transition to the newer use of media/data dispersion?
Laurian 2010-07-26T00:17:50+0000
afaik this is the 2nd iteration of courses on p2pu, and we learned a lot
quinn-n 2010-07-26T00:17:55+0000
irc needs streaming video :)
quinn-n 2010-07-26T00:18:04+0000
can you do that with an eggdrop?
quinn-n 2010-07-26T00:18:06+0000
:)
quinn-n 2010-07-26T00:18:48+0000
is this channel going to be logged with the class materials?
Laurian 2010-07-26T00:19:07+0000
quinn-n: this channel is logged
seanbonner 2010-07-26T00:19:12+0000
Don't say things like "shit" because people will know you said it later
quinn-n 2010-07-26T00:19:20+0000
hell.
Andriak 2010-07-26T00:19:29+0000
Darn
Laurian 2010-07-26T00:19:41+0000
this log will end up on the p2pu journalism forum
quinn-n 2010-07-26T00:20:33+0000
I do wish I'd known about the class sooner than I did, alas.
Andriak 2010-07-26T00:20:34+0000
Food works to make people show up too. :)
Laurian 2010-07-26T00:20:58+0000
Andriak: online we can hand over only browser cookies
GoldieKatsu 2010-07-26T00:21:08+0000
or pictures of food.
Andriak 2010-07-26T00:21:12+0000
Darn.
Lena 2010-07-26T00:21:30+0000
ehm, who is the person in the room with Joi? i was a bit late for the course..
quinn-n 2010-07-26T00:21:32+0000
laurian: which is like food, except it gives you privacy violations instead of calories.
seanbonner 2010-07-26T00:21:37+0000
Can we send food out over IRC?
Laurian 2010-07-26T00:21:59+0000
Andriak: we should make a deal with Pizza Hut or some international chain, and on the IRC during the class we'll give voucher codes
quinn-n 2010-07-26T00:22:03+0000
seanbonner: someone page dan kaminsky! maybe he can tunnel it over dns.
Andriak 2010-07-26T00:22:28+0000
@Laurian: Win. Big win.
Laurian 2010-07-26T00:23:12+0000
p2pu + McDonalds, if you are online at McDonalds on a p2pu course you get a meal for free :)
quinn-n 2010-07-26T00:23:28+0000
wish i could come :)
JoiIto 2010-07-26T00:24:33+0000
Just saw Goldie check in to whole foods - how are you here and at whole foods?
GoldieKatsu 2010-07-26T00:25:00+0000
lol I checked in as I was leaving.
Laurian 2010-07-26T00:25:43+0000
Second Life?
quinn-n 2010-07-26T00:26:04+0000
i think you need to build in some acknowledgement of this being an asynchronous learning environment
Andriak 2010-07-26T00:26:05+0000
Totally vote that real life physical, local meetups over food/drinks help strengthen community. Lots of talk of coffee shops and journalism and crowdsourcing going together.
GoldieKatsu 2010-07-26T00:26:39+0000
I like that idea.
Andriak 2010-07-26T00:26:46+0000
....Online News Association trying more local meetups. Associations that will survive will do that.
Laurian 2010-07-26T00:27:24+0000
or get an airline as sponsor and have an end of course meeting, all the students in one city (dreaming)
quinn-n 2010-07-26T00:27:24+0000
i think that might only work if it was more massive, and yeah, persistant
onerick 2010-07-26T00:28:17+0000
If you made it a persistent community, perhaps there could be a corresponding media site/platform for students to practice their craft and accumulate samples.
seanbonner 2010-07-26T00:28:18+0000
It's the idea of continually growing rather than starting and ending
Andriak 2010-07-26T00:28:20+0000
...er, I need to study some French and study for the GRE next...but I'd love to find a way to stay in touch. (Twitter lists work for that.)
quinn-n 2010-07-26T00:28:20+0000
it needs to be able to survive waxing and waning, but if it's ok to go fallow on occasion, without a sense that it's failing during waning, it's more likely to institutionalize
GoldieKatsu 2010-07-26T00:28:21+0000
Persistent does provide a base community that people would join as they joined a new class.
quinn-n 2010-07-26T00:30:08+0000
this is a false dichotomy- this class is an instantiation of hectic global conversation, and i think being persistent acknowledges that, but a class that begins and ends inside of it works well to feed into that conversation
quinn-n 2010-07-26T00:32:03+0000
"let's have it both ways"
quinn-n 2010-07-26T00:32:04+0000
:)
seanbonner 2010-07-26T00:32:07+0000
:D
GoldieKatsu 2010-07-26T00:32:11+0000
How do you bring a newcomer to the multi-slice communication style? How did the students who were initially overwhelmed by the email do the transition?
Andriak 2010-07-26T00:32:13+0000
<3 the IRC now for immediate chat, because it's in a bit of a walled garden instead of broadcast to big audience on Twitter. I'd love to find a way to do some specific online journalism teaching in the future...might drag in some photography buddies, but they'd need some real life classes to bring home the work.
quinn-n 2010-07-26T00:32:28+0000
the way pre aol septembers infused new blood into the net...
GoldieKatsu 2010-07-26T00:33:08+0000
So the persistent community would help bring the newer people in perhaps?
Laurian 2010-07-26T00:33:09+0000
JoiIto: what about Second Life?
quinn-n 2010-07-26T00:33:26+0000
i think that's a bit closed too
quinn-n 2010-07-26T00:33:27+0000
yeah
GoldieKatsu 2010-07-26T00:33:36+0000
The learning curve for the UI is hard, unfortunately.
onerick 2010-07-26T00:34:00+0000
Second Life also requires a minimum amount of hardware that not everyone has.
Laurian 2010-07-26T00:34:07+0000
(JoiIto: I might try Second life for the next cyberpunk class)
quinn-n 2010-07-26T00:34:12+0000
we could build something that piped together IM and irc
quinn-n 2010-07-26T00:34:27+0000
and/or a chat-forumy thing
Laurian 2010-07-26T00:34:44+0000
onerick: agree, but it might be more immersive, and hopefully more engaging
quinn-n 2010-07-26T00:35:02+0000
there's libs that do that. and for that matter, probably put it in mutt. you can make the modes invisible to the users though
GoldieKatsu 2010-07-26T00:35:07+0000
There are bridges that let you do chat & video across to the web with Second Life.
quinn-n 2010-07-26T00:35:29+0000
so: make it a cult, and use the classes as recuiting tools ;)
GoldieKatsu 2010-07-26T00:36:06+0000
The physical classroom integration is a challenge. (We do RL/SL meetups for the Boulder Serious SL group - sometimes it is very rough.)
Laurian 2010-07-26T00:36:34+0000
JoiIto: ocasional classes would be good, them are finite things in time, you can commit to a 4 week thing easier than joining an ongoing conversation with not visible outcome
GoldieKatsu 2010-07-26T00:36:36+0000
(the SL stuff was more for Laurian)
quinn-n 2010-07-26T00:36:37+0000
actually, i think having it as a class across different unis would probably help.
Andriak 2010-07-26T00:37:13+0000
Thing is, y'all have competition, including new online master's degrees from universities like the University of North Carolina. But it's hard to compete with @joi and his connections. Still, the online cutting edge folks in U.S. will mostly be drawn to World of Webcraft. Personal connections could draw in the most people.
megomars 2010-07-26T00:37:32+0000
Thanks seanbonner
quinn-n 2010-07-26T00:37:36+0000
why compete? why not approacha nd collaborate?
shamirkatsu_ 2010-07-26T00:37:45+0000
That is one of the good things about SL, your avatar gives people an idea of how you want to express yourself, it's like a visual mini bio
GoldieKatsu 2010-07-26T00:37:49+0000
That's it, everyone needs to join World of warcraft and have classes in the Barrens ;)
Andriak 2010-07-26T00:38:02+0000
Good idea on collaboration, especially on design. :)
quinn-n 2010-07-26T00:38:07+0000
way to exclude the alliance! humph
janak 2010-07-26T00:38:07+0000
@joi, would u like to hear from Dore (registered) and Edy-san (not registered) @kmd?
megomars 2010-07-26T00:38:14+0000
hi, what do you think about crowdsourcing and digital journalism
GoldieKatsu 2010-07-26T00:38:27+0000
(Actually mostly alliance, but I think barren's chat is the worst.)
quinn-n 2010-07-26T00:38:39+0000
the video creates events, and it needs events to coalesce around
Gustavo__ 2010-07-26T00:38:51+0000
totally agree on the overarching project
quinn-n 2010-07-26T00:39:36+0000
would confuse the hell out of people
seanbonner 2010-07-26T00:39:48+0000
confusing is good sometimes
seanbonner 2010-07-26T00:39:49+0000
:D
GoldieKatsu 2010-07-26T00:39:53+0000
That would be very hard to follow.
shamirkatsu_ 2010-07-26T00:40:07+0000
And it wouldn
shamirkatsu_ 2010-07-26T00:40:08+0000
'
GoldieKatsu 2010-07-26T00:40:09+0000
(but could be good)
quinn-n 2010-07-26T00:40:16+0000
confused as in can't find it til it's done confused
shamirkatsu_ 2010-07-26T00:40:17+0000
would not always have joi mojo pull
onerick 2010-07-26T00:40:26+0000
perhaps the class just needs a platform where people can work, so that students don't have to worry about creating one. Some j-students in Germany also did a world cup project, but there was a central place for it http://thisissouthafrica.de/
Gustavo__ 2010-07-26T00:41:05+0000
the one platform is a good idea also
megomars 2010-07-26T00:41:15+0000
guys, the reason I am on here is coz of joi's twitter post
megomars 2010-07-26T00:41:30+0000
I'm from south africa
seanbonner 2010-07-26T00:41:42+0000
Welcome!
megomars 2010-07-26T00:41:57+0000
thanks
seanbonner 2010-07-26T00:42:21+0000
so yes or no, who is into helping on the persistant overeaching project?
Andriak 2010-07-26T00:42:26+0000
@megomars Hi. Crowdsourcing's a big question: Definitely worth exploring, especially with data dumps. Imagine how many people are examining the Wikileaks data dump right now about the U.S. and Afghann war.
onerick 2010-07-26T00:43:33+0000
From a Japan point of view, crowdsourcing can be great for translation too
megomars 2010-07-26T00:43:44+0000
yeah like txteagle
quinn-n 2010-07-26T00:44:34+0000
you know what this conversation needs? an idea of what the goal is
quinn-n 2010-07-26T00:44:48+0000
what are we trying to acomplish, joi, sean?
GoldieKatsu 2010-07-26T00:45:03+0000
Good question.
seanbonner 2010-07-26T00:45:07+0000
It's just an experiment to see what happens and where it leads
seanbonner 2010-07-26T00:45:20+0000
What can come out of this?
Andriak 2010-07-26T00:45:33+0000
Use a persistent tag for everything, wherever it is...Flickr etc....It could also serve a little like a "badge."
quinn-n 2010-07-26T00:46:02+0000
ok, so i think that suggests that we try all of this, but one thing at time, and stay with it when it doesn't look like it's working.
GoldieKatsu 2010-07-26T00:46:08+0000
Is there a way to have the IRC match the hashtag?
Gilmar 2010-07-26T00:46:37+0000
i agree with Andriak, when the people really discovered the power of a tool like wiki leaks, we had a big noise, good noise for sure
quinn-n 2010-07-26T00:47:17+0000
it doesn't have to be the perfect tag, just picking one, whichever
Andriak 2010-07-26T00:47:23+0000
There's a Duke U. person doing a fall seminar on elearning etc....will try to dig up her name and share. She was interested in P2PU's World of Webcraft, but she's asking the higher level questions that this course is.
Gilmar 2010-07-26T00:47:52+0000
@andriak @megomars about the crowdsourcing : i agree with Andriak, when the people really discovered the power of a tool like wiki leaks, we had a big noise, good noise for sure
onerick 2010-07-26T00:48:01+0000
tagged media feeds (flickr, youtube) can be aggregated on a central website. Would be nice.
Laurian 2010-07-26T00:48:04+0000
I guess nobody want to mess with Google Wave :)
Laurian 2010-07-26T00:48:42+0000
time
Laurian 2010-07-26T00:49:23+0000
nope, this was a bot test
seanbonner 2010-07-26T00:49:34+0000
time
seanbonner 2010-07-26T00:49:40+0000
heh
megomars 2010-07-26T00:50:33+0000
time
quinn-n 2010-07-26T00:51:06+0000
laurian: google wha...? :)
megomars 2010-07-26T00:52:07+0000
I think this Ustream program rocks
Gustavo__ 2010-07-26T00:52:24+0000
Ustream really rocks!
quinn-n 2010-07-26T00:52:44+0000
this does eventually need a more unified ui. but it's really interesting to push the bounds of what we're tying to do with online collaboration, it suggests needs you wouldn't sit down and dream up without banging your head into the problems we've encountered directly
megomars 2010-07-26T00:53:08+0000
yeah you can embed google wave in mediawiki now, really works nicely with wikis
JoiIto 2010-07-26T00:53:16+0000
interesting
Laurian 2010-07-26T00:53:34+0000
quinn-n: I was hoping for 3rd parties to come up with better Wave interfaces, the default Google one looks like 4chan
seanbonner 2010-07-26T00:53:40+0000
Quinn, that's exactly it, we're trying to be the ground zero for all these mistakes, we'll volunteer to make them so that everyone can learn and see what works and what doesn't.
Gustavo__ 2010-07-26T00:54:00+0000
wow, embed google wave in media wiki! I will try it after class
quinn-n 2010-07-26T00:54:28+0000
seanbonner: that makes me think we should be talking to someone like google about how they could build something that would be able to do this?
Laurian 2010-07-26T00:55:31+0000
quinn-n: also the automatic translate bot in Google Wave can be very handy for classes
Gustavo__ 2010-07-26T00:56:33+0000
The bonding was something I didn't felt.
quinn-n 2010-07-26T00:56:42+0000
sorry, party foul
Andriak 2010-07-26T00:57:17+0000
Mission: To connect experienced journalists, wherever they might be in their diaspora, to the new practitioners of journalism, wherever they might be, to share knowledge, skills and techniques.
Hala 2010-07-26T00:57:34+0000
Can I talk about my project before the class is over?
Andriak 2010-07-26T00:57:34+0000
Uh, that's a proposal.
seanbonner 2010-07-26T00:58:47+0000
quinn-n to answer your last question, yes, i think google and many others should fund us to try and solve it and provide a roadmap of what tools need to be built
quinn-n 2010-07-26T00:59:00+0000
well, who wants to approach them?
quinn-n 2010-07-26T01:00:16+0000
well, i think there's a value in having someone iterating along with us from a developer point of view
janak 2010-07-26T01:00:34+0000
@joi, when we have a chance, Hala is ready w/her presentation
quinn-n 2010-07-26T01:00:35+0000
ok
megomars 2010-07-26T01:01:26+0000
Marhaba Hala
tokyomango 2010-07-26T01:03:27+0000
I love your blog Hala!
megomars 2010-07-26T01:04:01+0000
yeah adding it to my RSS feeds
seanbonner 2010-07-26T01:04:17+0000
Blame IE
Catharina 2010-07-26T01:05:01+0000
Hala, this is great!
Andriak 2010-07-26T01:05:10+0000
Very good advice on telling stories. Great presentation, Hala.
seanbonner 2010-07-26T01:06:31+0000
personal connections are very important on blogs
onerick 2010-07-26T01:07:38+0000
Nice work
quinn-n 2010-07-26T01:07:45+0000
Very cool
Laurian 2010-07-26T01:07:53+0000
great
megomars 2010-07-26T01:07:58+0000
Hala do u have a twitter account?
Lena 2010-07-26T01:08:11+0000
this was a really nice presentation
quinn-n 2010-07-26T01:08:41+0000
i had to miss a few minutes, so i apologize if this was answered, but why english?
tokyomango 2010-07-26T01:09:00+0000
agree with Joi!
tokyomango 2010-07-26T01:09:29+0000
I love that it's about your personal experience
onerick 2010-07-26T01:09:50+0000
(hope it's ok to share that)
tokyomango 2010-07-26T01:09:54+0000
through your lens we get a better sense of a subculture
quinn-n 2010-07-26T01:10:05+0000
yeah, personal stories are much more compelling, and contextualize the topic much better than other approches.
tokyomango 2010-07-26T01:10:21+0000
inside looking out
megomars 2010-07-26T01:10:39+0000
following @halaeldemellawy
tokyomango 2010-07-26T01:10:42+0000
personal blogs generally get much less hateful comments than group blogs
janak 2010-07-26T01:12:09+0000
Dore (aka Dorito) will be presenting from Tokyo in a few
tokyomango 2010-07-26T01:12:17+0000
people still remember that there's a human behind a personal blog.
Hala 2010-07-26T01:12:29+0000
Thanks everyone. I appreciate it!!
tokyomango 2010-07-26T01:12:30+0000
when people pee in my living room I ban them.
quinn-n 2010-07-26T01:12:39+0000
that's how you know someone on the internet is actually a dog
Gilmar 2010-07-26T01:12:49+0000
@tokyomango hi tokyomango "personal blogs generally get much less hateful comments than group blogs" i'm curious why?
seanbonner 2010-07-26T01:12:50+0000
That rug really tied the room together
quinn-n 2010-07-26T01:13:02+0000
seanbonner: heheheh
Andriak 2010-07-26T01:13:12+0000
Oooo, awesome idea. A "posse" to help with blog haters.
megomars 2010-07-26T01:13:31+0000
hi guys since we are sharing blogs here is mine http://megomars.vox.com/ (have some stuff about crowdsourcing, new media and my time in Turkey and Qatar)
seanbonner 2010-07-26T01:13:36+0000
yes, it's good to have backup
tokyomango 2010-07-26T01:13:41+0000
@gilmar: Partly, I think it's because a personal blog is not a known forum for heated discussions
tokyomango 2010-07-26T01:14:01+0000
commenters want to be noticed, too.
janak 2010-07-26T01:14:06+0000
@joi: dore is going to present now
Hala 2010-07-26T01:14:27+0000
Yes, Joi. Thanks
GoldieKatsu 2010-07-26T01:14:45+0000
I like the blog a lot Hala.
Andriak 2010-07-26T01:16:08+0000
Found Duke University professor: "Knowledge networks." Cathy Davidson: http://bit.ly/bpD441
Andriak 2010-07-26T01:17:34+0000
....Davidson is co founder of HASTAC and has knowledge of McCormick Foundation funds and projects.
Gilmar 2010-07-26T01:19:14+0000
oh thanks tokyomango, really exists a kindness from the visitors with the owners, but it is most common between the amateurs. what you think ?
quinn-n 2010-07-26T01:20:25+0000
where is the mailing list?
Catharina 2010-07-26T01:20:33+0000
Joi, we have one moreproject
onerick 2010-07-26T01:21:03+0000
the robot people?!
onerick 2010-07-26T01:21:16+0000
awesome
quinn-n 2010-07-26T01:21:21+0000
i love robot people
quinn-n 2010-07-26T01:21:36+0000
they're like real people but without the annoying human emotions
Gilmar 2010-07-26T01:21:44+0000
oh i had problems with th streaming. a bad time .I Missed your speak Dore,
megomars 2010-07-26T01:22:32+0000
hey thanks guys, really had fun watching
Andriak 2010-07-26T01:22:56+0000
Oooh. Link for feng shui blog? Very big in the U.S. actually these days.
janak 2010-07-26T01:23:11+0000
my dad would put my bed next to the window so it was easier for him to defenestrate me
Gilmar 2010-07-26T01:23:32+0000
@Gustavo_ But I seen.
tokyomango 2010-07-26T01:23:34+0000
if you read Japanese, there is a great blog about spirituality and popular culture
JoiIto 2010-07-26T01:23:38+0000
Does someone have the URL for their blog?
tokyomango 2010-07-26T01:23:40+0000
������������
tokyomango 2010-07-26T01:23:45+0000
sooo good
tokyomango 2010-07-26T01:24:08+0000
run by the same guys that do gizmodo/lifehacker japan
quinn-n 2010-07-26T01:24:35+0000
oh wow, neato!
haller 2010-07-26T01:25:20+0000
hmm guess i missed all the action /wave
janak 2010-07-26T01:25:34+0000
@joi: shall we just wrap-up the class after these ladies are finished w/their pres.?
Andriak 2010-07-26T01:25:46+0000
Heck yeah, daughter's a Type B blood type....:)
seanbonner 2010-07-26T01:26:08+0000
i forget what blood type I am.
tokyomango 2010-07-26T01:26:12+0000
ladies, this blog is a great idea and fun!
quinn-n 2010-07-26T01:26:13+0000
yeah, i'm vain, rude, and a universal acceptor of blood...
JoiIto 2010-07-26T01:26:18+0000
you fail @seanbonner
JoiIto 2010-07-26T01:26:20+0000
but you must be O
seanbonner 2010-07-26T01:26:28+0000
O as in OSSM
Laurian 2010-07-26T01:26:46+0000
Andriak: the blood thing is crazy, in AB0 system you split people in 4 types
quinn-n 2010-07-26T01:27:16+0000
it's an interesting line to walk talking about superstitions while being respectful, since they are a bit mutually exclusive
quinn-n 2010-07-26T01:27:25+0000
across cultures that is
quinn-n 2010-07-26T01:27:32+0000
wonderful blog, please keep it going!
Andriak 2010-07-26T01:27:34+0000
@Laurian Yeah, the scientific question is whether one lives up to expectations set by the superstitions.
Andriak 2010-07-26T01:27:46+0000
Thanks you all very much!
Laurian 2010-07-26T01:27:51+0000
Andriak: oddly Hippocrates split the temperaments into 4 too
janak 2010-07-26T01:27:52+0000
@sean: pls. punch palin
tokyomango 2010-07-26T01:27:54+0000
nomikai!
Gustavo__ 2010-07-26T01:27:57+0000
Thanks a lot Joi Ito!!!
Laurian 2010-07-26T01:28:09+0000
time
JoiIto 2010-07-26T01:28:18+0000
thank you all
gueorgui 2010-07-26T01:28:24+0000
Thanks Joi.
quinn-n 2010-07-26T01:28:25+0000
thanks joi for inviting me along
25th July IRC Log
hello
hey everyone
let me know if anyone wants to talk about their projects on skype
we don't have anyone queued up
otherwise I'm going to talk a bit about online communities here with sean bonner
o hai
good morning
hey sean. just browsing metblogs for the first time. good stuff
Thanks!
Some cities are better than others
Hi all. Thunderstorms looming (again), but here for now.
Hi everyone
I'll be watching IRC
hello :-)
and stuff
Welcome everyone
Video working for everyone?
Anyone have any thoughts on this?
video is working, but foggy
for me it's the timezone (europe, it's 2am)
(ah it's a video feed of a projector screen)
Shared early thought on forums about real life classes done with remote classes at same time: diminishes engagement of real life students (based on a high school class my daughter had.)
good morning everyone
Heh. Early morning local time probably the biggest hurdle.
I know I was bad at early morning classes when I was in college.
yup, the report is almost done
I too think it was a good learning experience overall. I think this is how people will be communicating in the future.
Hi Quinn
hello
this still feels a little like early days of tv, when people worked fairly hard to stare at what was sometimes just a screen of mostly fuzz, and no one knew how it would work out.
Guest speakers were awesome. Have serious doubts anyone else could bring that kind of international diversity.
Yeah, I'm with Andriak on this one. Guest speakers is what made this class great.
actually there's somehting intrinsically interesting about this being more of a conversation than a traditional class, that's not to be overlooked
For links, perhaps bookmark links on delicious.com as 'p2p2journalism-class1'. Sort of 'show notes'
can feed them through the p2pu drupal platform
New learning management tool launched early July: nixty.com. Lovely design, but built so far for top down communication.
I wonder if there is a way to help the transition to the newer use of media/data dispersion?
afaik this is the 2nd iteration of courses on p2pu, and we learned a lot
irc needs streaming video :)
can you do that with an eggdrop?
:)
is this channel going to be logged with the class materials?
quinn-n: this channel is logged
Don't say things like "shit" because people will know you said it later
hell.
Darn
this log will end up on the p2pu journalism forum
I do wish I'd known about the class sooner than I did, alas.
Food works to make people show up too. :)
Andriak: online we can hand over only browser cookies
or pictures of food.
Darn.
ehm, who is the person in the room with Joi? i was a bit late for the course..
laurian: which is like food, except it gives you privacy violations instead of calories.
Can we send food out over IRC?
Andriak: we should make a deal with Pizza Hut or some international chain, and on the IRC during the class we'll give voucher codes
seanbonner: someone page dan kaminsky! maybe he can tunnel it over dns.
@Laurian: Win. Big win.
p2pu + McDonalds, if you are online at McDonalds on a p2pu course you get a meal for free :)
wish i could come :)
Just saw Goldie check in to whole foods - how are you here and at whole foods?
lol I checked in as I was leaving.
Second Life?
i think you need to build in some acknowledgement of this being an asynchronous learning environment
Totally vote that real life physical, local meetups over food/drinks help strengthen community. Lots of talk of coffee shops and journalism and crowdsourcing going together.
I like that idea.
....Online News Association trying more local meetups. Associations that will survive will do that.
or get an airline as sponsor and have an end of course meeting, all the students in one city (dreaming)
i think that might only work if it was more massive, and yeah, persistant
If you made it a persistent community, perhaps there could be a corresponding media site/platform for students to practice their craft and accumulate samples.
It's the idea of continually growing rather than starting and ending
...er, I need to study some French and study for the GRE next...but I'd love to find a way to stay in touch. (Twitter lists work for that.)
it needs to be able to survive waxing and waning, but if it's ok to go fallow on occasion, without a sense that it's failing during waning, it's more likely to institutionalize
Persistent does provide a base community that people would join as they joined a new class.
this is a false dichotomy- this class is an instantiation of hectic global conversation, and i think being persistent acknowledges that, but a class that begins and ends inside of it works well to feed into that conversation
"let's have it both ways"
:)
:D
How do you bring a newcomer to the multi-slice communication style? How did the students who were initially overwhelmed by the email do the transition?
<3 the IRC now for immediate chat, because it's in a bit of a walled garden instead of broadcast to big audience on Twitter. I'd love to find a way to do some specific online journalism teaching in the future...might drag in some photography buddies, but they'd need some real life classes to bring home the work.
the way pre aol septembers infused new blood into the net...
So the persistent community would help bring the newer people in perhaps?
JoiIto: what about Second Life?
i think that's a bit closed too
yeah
The learning curve for the UI is hard, unfortunately.
Second Life also requires a minimum amount of hardware that not everyone has.
(JoiIto: I might try Second life for the next cyberpunk class)
we could build something that piped together IM and irc
and/or a chat-forumy thing
onerick: agree, but it might be more immersive, and hopefully more engaging
there's libs that do that. and for that matter, probably put it in mutt. you can make the modes invisible to the users though
There are bridges that let you do chat & video across to the web with Second Life.
so: make it a cult, and use the classes as recuiting tools ;)
The physical classroom integration is a challenge. (We do RL/SL meetups for the Boulder Serious SL group - sometimes it is very rough.)
JoiIto: ocasional classes would be good, them are finite things in time, you can commit to a 4 week thing easier than joining an ongoing conversation with not visible outcome
(the SL stuff was more for Laurian)
actually, i think having it as a class across different unis would probably help.
Thing is, y'all have competition, including new online master's degrees from universities like the University of North Carolina. But it's hard to compete with @joi and his connections. Still, the online cutting edge folks in U.S. will mostly be drawn to World of Webcraft. Personal connections could draw in the most people.
Thanks seanbonner
why compete? why not approacha nd collaborate?
That is one of the good things about SL, your avatar gives people an idea of how you want to express yourself, it's like a visual mini bio
That's it, everyone needs to join World of warcraft and have classes in the Barrens ;)
Good idea on collaboration, especially on design. :)
way to exclude the alliance! humph
@joi, would u like to hear from Dore (registered) and Edy-san (not registered) @kmd?
hi, what do you think about crowdsourcing and digital journalism
(Actually mostly alliance, but I think barren's chat is the worst.)
the video creates events, and it needs events to coalesce around
totally agree on the overarching project
would confuse the hell out of people
confusing is good sometimes
:D
That would be very hard to follow.
And it wouldn
'
(but could be good)
confused as in can't find it til it's done confused
would not always have joi mojo pull
perhaps the class just needs a platform where people can work, so that students don't have to worry about creating one. Some j-students in Germany also did a world cup project, but there was a central place for it http://thisissouthafrica.de/
the one platform is a good idea also
guys, the reason I am on here is coz of joi's twitter post
I'm from south africa
Welcome!
thanks
so yes or no, who is into helping on the persistant overeaching project?
@megomars Hi. Crowdsourcing's a big question: Definitely worth exploring, especially with data dumps. Imagine how many people are examining the Wikileaks data dump right now about the U.S. and Afghann war.
From a Japan point of view, crowdsourcing can be great for translation too
yeah like txteagle
you know what this conversation needs? an idea of what the goal is
what are we trying to acomplish, joi, sean?
Good question.
It's just an experiment to see what happens and where it leads
What can come out of this?
Use a persistent tag for everything, wherever it is...Flickr etc....It could also serve a little like a "badge."
ok, so i think that suggests that we try all of this, but one thing at time, and stay with it when it doesn't look like it's working.
Is there a way to have the IRC match the hashtag?
i agree with Andriak, when the people really discovered the power of a tool like wiki leaks, we had a big noise, good noise for sure
it doesn't have to be the perfect tag, just picking one, whichever
There's a Duke U. person doing a fall seminar on elearning etc....will try to dig up her name and share. She was interested in P2PU's World of Webcraft, but she's asking the higher level questions that this course is.
@andriak @megomars about the crowdsourcing : i agree with Andriak, when the people really discovered the power of a tool like wiki leaks, we had a big noise, good noise for sure
tagged media feeds (flickr, youtube) can be aggregated on a central website. Would be nice.
I guess nobody want to mess with Google Wave :)
time
nope, this was a bot test
time
heh
time
laurian: google wha...? :)
I think this Ustream program rocks
Ustream really rocks!
this does eventually need a more unified ui. but it's really interesting to push the bounds of what we're tying to do with online collaboration, it suggests needs you wouldn't sit down and dream up without banging your head into the problems we've encountered directly
yeah you can embed google wave in mediawiki now, really works nicely with wikis
interesting
quinn-n: I was hoping for 3rd parties to come up with better Wave interfaces, the default Google one looks like 4chan
Quinn, that's exactly it, we're trying to be the ground zero for all these mistakes, we'll volunteer to make them so that everyone can learn and see what works and what doesn't.
wow, embed google wave in media wiki! I will try it after class
seanbonner: that makes me think we should be talking to someone like google about how they could build something that would be able to do this?
quinn-n: also the automatic translate bot in Google Wave can be very handy for classes
Re tools, Tools for News: http://toolkit.snd.org/ *re-post
The bonding was something I didn't felt.
sorry, party foul
Mission: To connect experienced journalists, wherever they might be in their diaspora, to the new practitioners of journalism, wherever they might be, to share knowledge, skills and techniques.
Can I talk about my project before the class is over?
Uh, that's a proposal.
quinn-n to answer your last question, yes, i think google and many others should fund us to try and solve it and provide a roadmap of what tools need to be built
well, who wants to approach them?
well, i think there's a value in having someone iterating along with us from a developer point of view
@joi, when we have a chance, Hala is ready w/her presentation
ok
Marhaba Hala
http://tokyoarab.blogspot.com/
I love your blog Hala!
yeah adding it to my RSS feeds
Blame IE
Hala, this is great!
Very good advice on telling stories. Great presentation, Hala.
personal connections are very important on blogs
Nice work
Very cool
great
Hala do u have a twitter account?
this was a really nice presentation
i had to miss a few minutes, so i apologize if this was answered, but why english?
agree with Joi!
I love that it's about your personal experience
http://twitter.com/halaeldemellawy
(hope it's ok to share that)
through your lens we get a better sense of a subculture
yeah, personal stories are much more compelling, and contextualize the topic much better than other approches.
inside looking out
following @halaeldemellawy
personal blogs generally get much less hateful comments than group blogs
Dore (aka Dorito) will be presenting from Tokyo in a few
people still remember that there's a human behind a personal blog.
Thanks everyone. I appreciate it!!
when people pee in my living room I ban them.
that's how you know someone on the internet is actually a dog
my and nadhir's project is not completely finished yet and not put on blog either, but here is the document http://www.scribd.com/doc/34844223/Covering-the-course-an-online-learnin...
@tokyomango hi tokyomango "personal blogs generally get much less hateful comments than group blogs" i'm curious why?
That rug really tied the room together
seanbonner: heheheh
Oooo, awesome idea. A "posse" to help with blog haters.
hi guys since we are sharing blogs here is mine http://megomars.vox.com/ (have some stuff about crowdsourcing, new media and my time in Turkey and Qatar)
yes, it's good to have backup
@gilmar: Partly, I think it's because a personal blog is not a known forum for heated discussions
commenters want to be noticed, too.
@joi: dore is going to present now
Yes, Joi. Thanks
I like the blog a lot Hala.
Found Duke University professor: "Knowledge networks." Cathy Davidson: http://bit.ly/bpD441
http://www.scribd.com/doc/34844223/Covering-the-course-an-online-learnin... <-- the project of me and Nadhir
....Davidson is co founder of HASTAC and has knowledge of McCormick Foundation funds and projects.
oh thanks tokyomango, really exists a kindness from the visitors with the owners, but it is most common between the amateurs. what you think ?
where is the mailing list?
Joi, we have one moreproject
the robot people?!
awesome
i love robot people
Quinn: http://groups.google.com/group/p2pu-digital-journalism
they're like real people but without the annoying human emotions
oh i had problems with th streaming. a bad time .I Missed your speak Dore,
hey thanks guys, really had fun watching
Oooh. Link for feng shui blog? Very big in the U.S. actually these days.
my dad would put my bed next to the window so it was easier for him to defenestrate me
@Gustavo_ But I seen.
if you read Japanese, there is a great blog about spirituality and popular culture
Does someone have the URL for their blog?
������������
sooo good
http://superstitionworldwide.wordpress.com/
run by the same guys that do gizmodo/lifehacker japan
oh wow, neato!
hmm guess i missed all the action /wave
@joi: shall we just wrap-up the class after these ladies are finished w/their pres.?
Heck yeah, daughter's a Type B blood type....:)
somewhat related, Japanese blood type infographic http://www.geekinheels.com/storage/history_of_japanese_blood_typing.jpg
i forget what blood type I am.
ladies, this blog is a great idea and fun!
yeah, i'm vain, rude, and a universal acceptor of blood...
you fail @seanbonner
but you must be O
O as in OSSM
Andriak: the blood thing is crazy, in AB0 system you split people in 4 types
it's an interesting line to walk talking about superstitions while being respectful, since they are a bit mutually exclusive
across cultures that is
wonderful blog, please keep it going!
@Laurian Yeah, the scientific question is whether one lives up to expectations set by the superstitions.
Thanks you all very much!
Andriak: oddly Hippocrates split the temperaments into 4 too
@sean: pls. punch palin
nomikai!
Thanks a lot Joi Ito!!!
time
thank you all
Thanks Joi.
thanks joi for inviting me along