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Collaborative Lesson Planning

28 February 2011 Live Meeting Notes

Charles Danoff's picture
Mon, 2011-02-28 21:22

Had our first live meeting today with Joe, Dr. King and myself. Started in IRC via our course's chat between me and Joe and then moved to piratepad with Dr. King and we discussed the introduction to Joe's lesson plan. I've pasted the discussions below as a reference for people:

IRC Chat

[12:11] == danoff [180f366b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has joined #p2pu-collaborative-lesson-planning-0
[12:11] <holtzermann17> It would be even cooler to see a feed of chat logs
[12:11] <danoff> hey
[12:12] <holtzermann17> I'm currently working on revising that book chapter I mentioned to you a while ago
[12:12] <danoff> with Marisa?
[12:12] <holtzermann17> it talks about "paragogy" in the final section
[12:12] <danoff> slick
[12:12] <holtzermann17> this is one with my supervisor
[12:12] <holtzermann17> I can send you a copy in a day or two
[12:13] <danoff> about like open educational resources or whatever?
[12:13] <holtzermann17> iyep
[12:13] <danoff> kk, plz do
[12:13] <danoff> and i agree it "would be even cooler to see a feed of chat logs"
[12:13] <danoff> sorry for being late, btw
[12:13] <holtzermann17> quite a simple way to make the site more interactive
[12:13] <danoff> yeah
[12:14] <holtzermann17> I guess one useful thing to do for this week would be to think more about how to make a paragogy "intervention" across P2PU
[12:14] <danoff> and also have this feed more naturally into the discussions going on within the site
[12:14] <danoff> ha
[12:14] <holtzermann17> I'm thinking about what to do for the Open Governance and Learning course
[12:14] <danoff> isn't this your week, week 5?
[12:15] <holtzermann17> yep
[12:15] <holtzermann17>  but I sort of forgot about it b/c last week I was busy in programming land, thinking about PlanetMath
[12:15] <holtzermann17> will write it into my TODO list for today
[12:15] <holtzermann17> actually...
[12:16] <danoff> ...
[12:16] <danoff> it ca fit into what you just said, right?
[12:16] <danoff> can
[12:16] <holtzermann17> thinking about the idea of integrating these chat logs... that might be a good way to help avoid the sense of "activity die off" in P2PU
[12:17] <holtzermann17> sorry, fit in what?
[12:17] <holtzermann17> didn't understand
[12:17] <danoff> "how to make a paragogy "intervention" across P2PU"
[12:17] <holtzermann17> oh, yes!!
[12:17] <holtzermann17> definitely
[12:18] <holtzermann17> anything that helps make people realize that it's a shared context would work along these lines
[12:18] <holtzermann17> Well, "make" them realize might be a bit strong
[12:18] <danoff> shared context?
[12:19] <holtzermann17> I mean, if all of the different conversations going on around the site were integrated into a feed on the main page, then it would be more obvious that the site is actively shared by many people who are working on many different aspects of the project
[12:19] <danoff> and I agree "make" is a bit strong
[12:19] <holtzermann17> this is sort of how it works on PlanetMath, incidentally
[12:20] <holtzermann17> every object in PlanetMath has a discussion forum attached to it, and all of these discussions appear in one big feed on the main page
[12:20] <holtzermann17> the only problem is that with everything all jammed together like that, conversations can be a bit hard to follow
[12:20] <danoff> isn't that what they already have with the "recent activity"
[12:20] <danoff> ?
[12:20] <holtzermann17> anyway, I'll bring up the idea on the P2PU-dev list
[12:21] <holtzermann17> well, they have one at the individual level
[12:21] <holtzermann17> and at the course level
[12:21] <holtzermann17> but not at the site level
[12:21] <danoff> gotcha
[12:21] <danoff> so you wanna push P2PU in that direction in general?
[12:22] <holtzermann17> I guess it might make people feel very different about conversations if everything was public
[12:22] <danoff> and you feel its connected with paragogy?
[12:22] <holtzermann17> yes
[12:22] <danoff> please expand
[12:22] <holtzermann17> in the sense that "Shared Context as a Decentered Center" is a key point for paragogy
[12:22] <danoff> also, point to the example of it on planetmath, plx
[12:22] <danoff> plz
[12:22] <holtzermann17> The "shared context" is the "public space"
[12:23] <holtzermann17> Just look at the bottom of
[12:23] <holtzermann17> has more messages
[12:23] <danoff> latest messages?
[12:23] <holtzermann17> the little red upward-pointing triangles indicate the original context of the message
[12:24] <holtzermann17> yep
[12:24] <holtzermann17> but it is latest messages pulled from all over the site
[12:25] <holtzermann17> it would be possible to make a "P2PU Planet" that pulls in all chat logs, all forum posts, etc
[12:25] <holtzermann17> I dunno
[12:25] <holtzermann17> maybe I'm just getting the sense that people around P2PU end up getting too isolated
[12:25] <danoff> it'd be possible w/o any sort of "P2PU Planet"
[12:25] <danoff> w/in their curent software
[12:26] <holtzermann17> because courses start out with a limited number of members, and then people leave, until there are only a few left
[12:26] <danoff> its possible
[12:26] <holtzermann17> possible: I agree it would be possible w/ very small adjustments, probably an hour of work
[12:26] <danoff> agreed about the limited #'s, and then you feel that such a streaming feed would exemplify "`shared context in motion'."
[12:26] <holtzermann17> maybe another 4 hours to make it even better and pull in all sorts of other content
[12:26] <danoff> an hour of work max
[12:27] <holtzermann17> shared context in motion: exactly!!
[12:27] <holtzermann17> it's just about creating designs that implement that idea increasingly well
[12:28] <holtzermann17> And maybe it's in the process of happening... but only after a BIG discussion :)
[12:28] <danoff> you could also have something about who's in chat currently
[12:28] <holtzermann17> yep!!!
[12:28] <holtzermann17> so it is a shared live context
[12:29] <holtzermann17> would be quite nice
[12:29] <danoff> i think howard rheingold's developed social media classroom would be a good platform for p2pu
[12:29] <holtzermann17> will have to check it out...
[12:30] <danoff> kk, basically does what we're saying and also automatically includes member's personal blog feeds, tweets, social bookmarks, etc. & has a course wiki
[12:30] <holtzermann17> sounds good
[12:30] <holtzermann17> it's curious that so many different communities feel they have to "reinvent" this technology
[12:30] <danoff> yeah
[12:30] <danoff> its a big time waster
[12:30] <danoff> re-inventing the wheel over and over
[12:31] <holtzermann17> Another place where the idea of "shared context in motion" would help
[12:31] <danoff> one sec
[12:31] <holtzermann17> I mean, if people are authentically sharing the results of their individual experiments...
[12:31] <holtzermann17> but I don't have clear evidence that that is what they are doing

Pirate Pad

Dr. King's Comments on the introduction to "Implementing Paragogy":
  • It just says two people who doesn't make any difference who they are. They can learn together. How does that become a peer?
  • says its ok as a defeiniton, but not as a theory
  • how is he going to evaluate?
    • sugggestion: people learning japanese ... end of two months of people learning japanese, they can "evaluate" themselves by seeing if they can write 500 characters down on a blank piece of paper
    • she said that is a logical evaluation and its fine
  • Joe: these are same questions from before, I think we keep going around with them... so can we get more specific with it?
    • does the japanese character thing count?

Introduction to Paragogy: (from Implementing Paragogy)

Peer-to-peer or "peer-based" learning is what happens when a group of  people with different backgrounds and aims agree to come together for a  learning activity, most likely without a teacher and without an  explicit learning plan (at the outset). There are both benefits and  hazards to this kind of learning. This lesson is aimed at persons who  are interested in helping facilitate such learning experiences, to get  the greatest benefit and diminish the overall hazard. You might be an  official "facilitator", or an administrator, or a peer learner aiming to  help your learning group achieve more. The lesson reflects back on half a year of experience at P2PU and continues to grow and develop --  in working through this lesson, you will have the opportunity to  contribute to the theory of "paragogy".
  • Purpose of this lesson 
  • Learn techniques for designing and running a peer-to-peer course.
  • Learn techniques for fostering organizational learning in your institution or other shared context.
  • Develop plans for balancing the above with your own learning needs and ambitions.
  • Audience Anyone who is already involved in peer-to-peer education or who aims to become involved with it.
  • Time to complete Initial exercise: about 1 hour - Practice in the field: at least 1 quarter.
  • Requirements Can be studied alone, but should be practiced with a group.