Open Journalism & the Open Web

The audio for the lecture is available online here.

The slides are online here and here. (Also embedded below).

Open journalismfortheopenweb intro-sept2010

View more presentations from Phillip Smith.

Hacks/Hackers intro

View more presentations from Phillip Smith.

And the chat transcript is below (read from the bottom up):

Rick Martin says:

Sep 17, 02:00 PM

some links from today, once again for those who missed http://www.delicious.com/P2PUopenweb/lecture02

Phillip Smith says:

Sep 17, 02:00 PM

That's it for me today, folks! Thanks again. See you in the IRC channel. :-) I'll post the audio and slides shortly on the P2PU site.

Phillip Smith says:

Sep 17, 02:00 PM

E.g.: https://github.com/organizations/bricoleurs

Rick Martin says:

Sep 17, 01:59 PM

Thanks Vitor. Gotcha. :)

Phillip Smith says:

Sep 17, 01:59 PM

@DaveG @Pierce Re: Github organizations: http://github.com/blog/674-introducing-organizations

Vitor Baptista says:

Sep 17, 01:59 PM

@1rick You're missing me, @vitorbaptista :)

Rick Martin says:

Sep 17, 01:58 PM

If I'm missing anyone on the Twitter list, drop me a message http://twitter.com/1rick/p2puopenweb

Mai Hoang says:

Sep 17, 01:58 PM

Wow so many good comments...so much to keep up with!

Greg Willson says:

Sep 17, 01:58 PM

If any journalists want a sandbox/host to test a joomla, wordpress, drupal, or gallery3, I can offer that, and some tips.

Phillip Smith says:

Sep 17, 01:57 PM

http://p2pu.org/general/node/5644/chat

Phillip Smith says:

Sep 17, 01:57 PM

@Grant easiest way to get on the IRC is through the P2PU site

Steve Myers says:

Sep 17, 01:57 PM

I'm @myersnews on the Twittter.

Mai Hoang says:

Sep 17, 01:57 PM

Thanks Burt for your time!

david mason says:

Sep 17, 01:56 PM

thanks !

Jeff Severns Guntzel says:

Sep 17, 01:56 PM

I'm @jsguntzel on twitter.

Grant Hamilton says:

Sep 17, 01:56 PM

link to irc channel again?

Burt Herman says:

Sep 17, 01:56 PM

Thanks so much everyone for your interest

Burt Herman says:

Sep 17, 01:56 PM

@burtherman here! hope to continue the discussion, great chat going on here

Vitor Baptista says:

Sep 17, 01:56 PM

If organization creation isn't possible in github, we could set up in gitorious.com.

Michael Newman says:

Sep 17, 01:56 PM

Great hour. Thanks, Burt and Rich!

Mai Hoang says:

Sep 17, 01:56 PM

@maiphoang here

Josh Wilson says:

Sep 17, 01:55 PM

@mrjoshuawilson on twitter

Chip Oglesby says:

Sep 17, 01:55 PM

I'm @cophotog on twitter. looking forward to keeping up with people there as well.

Pierce Presley says:

Sep 17, 01:55 PM

@Phillip As I understand it, you can make your code shared, public or open source. The first lets people you choose see and (maybe) edit, the second lets everybody see it and the last lets anyone submit code or fork it.

Rick Martin says:

Sep 17, 01:55 PM

Twitter list here for many people on this course http://twitter.com/1rick/p2puopenweb

Josh Wilson says:

Sep 17, 01:55 PM

Diggin' it. Shared cultural practices and ideas, "inverted pyramid etc." comlpement shared social/resource venues such as GitHub to create a collaborative culture ... ? OK I'll clam up for now.

Mai Hoang says:

Sep 17, 01:54 PM

@Jeff Those monthly meetings sound like a great idea.

Phillip Smith says:

Sep 17, 01:53 PM

@DavdG are you able to create an github "organization" so that other github users can be added to it?

Pierce Presley says:

Sep 17, 01:53 PM

I'm the terribly creative @piercepresley.

Grant Hamilton says:

Sep 17, 01:53 PM

+1 Josh ... the whole idea of news as unbiased, using inverted pyramid, etc, is a shared cultural idea. I would like to add open and collaborative to that.

Chris Nicholson says:

Sep 17, 01:53 PM

@DaveG Just followed you, I'm the ironically-titled @ludditewebdev on Twitter.

Phillip Smith says:

Sep 17, 01:53 PM

@Josh -- glad you asked! We're going to be talking about that quite a bit over the next few weeks. :)

Josh Wilson says:

Sep 17, 01:52 PM

People say you need a "hacker attitude" ... which I think is astute, but what does that literally mean, socially and culturally? How can that be identified anthropologically, so to speak?

Mai Hoang says:

Sep 17, 01:52 PM

Who doesn't love beer?

Dave Goodchild says:

Sep 17, 01:52 PM

laptop about to go, follow me on twitter and dm me

Mai Hoang says:

Sep 17, 01:52 PM

@Michael Newman Great idea!

Jeff Severns Guntzel says:

Sep 17, 01:52 PM

I'm doing a monthly meeting at MinnPost where I show editorial staff new tools and we brainstorm new story ideas inspired by those tools. Side benefit: Getting members of the org who don't get the tech stuff really excited.

Michael Newman says:

Sep 17, 01:52 PM

@Dave I just followed the project (newmaniese) can I be a contributor?

Josh Wilson says:

Sep 17, 01:51 PM

This issue of collaboration is so key. I think there are cultural issues that need to be addressed. A coder pal of mine once said that code isn't "open source" by virtue of being code, but rather by virtue of how it is licensed ... in other words, it's a social phenomenon that makes the technical phenomenon of code "open" ... how can that intersect with journalism practice? What social systems can open up journalism practice?

Dave Goodchild says:

Sep 17, 01:50 PM

re github I can add contributors to that account so as people collaborate just DM me (@buddhamagnet) for deets

Pierce Presley says:

Sep 17, 01:50 PM

I was in a webinar yesterday with one of the DocumentCloud people, and it struck me (and at least one more unaffiliated journalist) how newspaper/magazine/station-specific their thinking is. (I did make a snarky remark.) I was wondering if Rich or Burt would like to speak about the Hacks/Hackers paradigm (big word!) in relation to independent journalists.

Rick Martin says:

Sep 17, 01:50 PM

test

Dave Goodchild says:

Sep 17, 01:50 PM

Burt can you put the storify code on github in the spirit of the open web?

Greg Willson says:

Sep 17, 01:50 PM

set up some twitter hashtag readers and experiment with using #hashtags

Chris Nicholson says:

Sep 17, 01:49 PM

@DaveG Ah, you've done it! I've never actually used it before, so this'll be useful for me!

Michael Newman says:

Sep 17, 01:49 PM

Buy the lead programmer a beer

Greg Willson says:

Sep 17, 01:49 PM

I want to chime in for the wordpress p2 theme- Its great for private microblogging and a goodplace to start learning how to 'hack' your wordpress installation

Mai Hoang says:

Sep 17, 01:49 PM

Question here: What are some things that journalists can do to reach out to newspaper online departments. How do I start that conversation? (In my work: the newsroom and the online department are on separate floors!)

Chris Nicholson says:

Sep 17, 01:48 PM

I agree with DaveG, setting up a github account would be agood idea.

Dave Goodchild says:

Sep 17, 01:48 PM

Done: http://github.com/openjournalism

Steve Myers says:

Sep 17, 01:48 PM

I found a Python meetup in the St. Pete area, and a couple of the people there work in journalism-related areas. Most of them are not, but it at least introduced me to some Python developers.

Sarah Laskow says:

Sep 17, 01:48 PM

Do Burt or Rich have any examples of collaborations between journos and programmers gone horribly wrong and what they learned from those?

Greg Willson says:

Sep 17, 01:47 PM

@phillip I like that idea. github treatment of public docs was a topic on sunlightlabs list,

Phillip Smith says:

Sep 17, 01:47 PM

@Dave Maybe set-up a github "organization" for the course, yah?

Dave Goodchild says:

Sep 17, 01:46 PM

to throw up collaborative projects

Mai Hoang says:

Sep 17, 01:46 PM

+1 for Chip

Chip Oglesby says:

Sep 17, 01:46 PM

How do you start a hacks/hackers group in an area where's there's not much hacking going on?

Dave Goodchild says:

Sep 17, 01:46 PM

I suggest we start a github account for this course?

Josh Wilson says:

Sep 17, 01:45 PM

Do you have an access key for Storify?

Dave Goodchild says:

Sep 17, 01:45 PM

it looks great

Phillip Smith says:

Sep 17, 01:45 PM

http://preview.storify.com/

Dave Goodchild says:

Sep 17, 01:43 PM

Bye all, still on phone

Phillip Smith says:

Sep 17, 01:43 PM

Any questions for Rich or Burt?

Dave Goodchild says:

Sep 17, 01:43 PM

Laptop battery about to go

Mai Hoang says:

Sep 17, 01:43 PM

@Josh some good ideas

Greg Willson says:

Sep 17, 01:43 PM

MAI, I've been experimenting with the Drupal based 'openpublish' system. Its a pretty flexible news app.

Phillip Smith says:

Sep 17, 01:43 PM

http://www.themediaconsortium.org/

Josh Wilson says:

Sep 17, 01:43 PM

Could be entry points for crowdsourced knowledge, for example.

Josh Wilson says:

Sep 17, 01:42 PM

I think disclaimers and calling out the "holes" as iterative opportunities in some sort of meta paragraph might work, Mai.

Matt Carroll says:

Sep 17, 01:42 PM

fyi, re: Hacks/Hackers in Boston area: meetupbos.hackshackers.com.

Mai Hoang says:

Sep 17, 01:42 PM

of holes in inforamtion

Mai Hoang says:

Sep 17, 01:42 PM

@Dave show that transparency

Dave Goodchild says:

Sep 17, 01:42 PM

do what Mai?

Pierce Presley says:

Sep 17, 01:42 PM

There is a Hacks/Hackers meetup coming up in Austin on the 30th. It's nice to have something within reasonable driving distance.

Mai Hoang says:

Sep 17, 01:42 PM

But not sure how you would do that in a newsapp...

Mai Hoang says:

Sep 17, 01:41 PM

I think part of it is about transparency.. I think we just need to be honest of what's not available

Mai Hoang says:

Sep 17, 01:41 PM

@Steve Great points. I know I have the bad habit of trying to write around holes.

Dave Goodchild says:

Sep 17, 01:41 PM

Start their own!

Grant Hamilton says:

Sep 17, 01:41 PM

@Steve -- agreed. It's a bad cultural habit.

Dave Goodchild says:

Sep 17, 01:40 PM

thanks Burt

Steve Myers says:

Sep 17, 01:40 PM

@Grant-Journos should definitely work to include what they don't know. It would expose the bad habit of "writing around" holes. You can't hide the holes in an info graphic or a news app.

Josh Wilson says:

Sep 17, 01:40 PM

Steve: perhaps Mai's advice ... do it and move on ... can nudge along "audience" openness to iterative reporting ...

Steve Myers says:

Sep 17, 01:39 PM

@Josh - Yes, you're right.

Mai Hoang says:

Sep 17, 01:39 PM

Just try it out...and if it doesn't work. Get over it..and move on

Grant Hamilton says:

Sep 17, 01:39 PM

journalism is all about what is known -- iteration would be easier if we included what is unknown as well ... would be better journalism, too

Mai Hoang says:

Sep 17, 01:39 PM

I like the fail fast principle...which something I learned through the newspaper next movement.

Josh Wilson says:

Sep 17, 01:39 PM

Steve: I think that requires a culture change by both publishers and the people who consume the news ... they have to accept the news report as a stop on a journey, not the destination itself ...

Chris Nicholson says:

Sep 17, 01:38 PM

@Greg I agree, use of CVS and github et al means coders are always collaborating.

Chris Nicholson says:

Sep 17, 01:38 PM

That is a very funny flow diagram!

Greg Willson says:

Sep 17, 01:38 PM

coding is best when there is much sharing (github,sourceforge,google code)

Steve Myers says:

Sep 17, 01:38 PM

I understand the reluctance of putting out incomplete journalism. You can't fine-tune forever. But you have to work to build this iteration into your journalism.

Josh Wilson says:

Sep 17, 01:38 PM

Iteration is awesome, especially as one follows a story, but the burden on a journo is that getting it "wrong" in the first iteration can be a front-page howler requiring retractions and corrections ... so that myth of perfection has some roots in the actual needs of practice ...

Pierce Presley says:

Sep 17, 01:37 PM

@JeffSG It works with two windows on two monitors. (I loves me some multiple monitors.)

Grant Hamilton says:

Sep 17, 01:37 PM

would love to see more collaboration in journalism.

Mai Hoang says:

Sep 17, 01:36 PM

*forth.

Mai Hoang says:

Sep 17, 01:36 PM

@Pierce -- I'm just doing tabbed browsing, so I can go back and fourth.

Pierce Presley says:

Sep 17, 01:36 PM

@JeffSG Never mind, brain fart. Forgot which webinar software I was on.

Dave Goodchild says:

Sep 17, 01:35 PM

perpetual beta is liberating

Phillip Smith says:

Sep 17, 01:35 PM

@Jeff @AmyJo ++ great idea :-)

Pierce Presley says:

Sep 17, 01:35 PM

@JeffSG you're not getting the stereo effect?

Jeff Severns Guntzel says:

Sep 17, 01:34 PM

I have the chat opened in a separate window and they fit side by side on my laptop.

AmyJo Brown says:

Sep 17, 01:34 PM

@Pierce Presley I've opened two separate windows and put them side by side on my screen. :) Working well so far.

Dave Goodchild says:

Sep 17, 01:34 PM

I call myself a word engineer

Mai Hoang says:

Sep 17, 01:34 PM

@David -- thank you!

Dave Goodchild says:

Sep 17, 01:34 PM

agreed!

Pierce Presley says:

Sep 17, 01:34 PM

Presenting note: I really wish I could see the chat and the slideshow. Anybody with a solution (other than a bigger monitor!) pipe up.

david mason says:

Sep 17, 01:33 PM

links http://www.delicious.com/P2PUopenweb/lecture02

Phillip Smith says:

Sep 17, 01:33 PM

@davidmason The linked web is something we should definitely talk about in this course. See that BBC link I posted earlier -- very insightful.

Steve Myers says:

Sep 17, 01:31 PM

Those 3 paths into programming are very helpful. Thanks, Rich.

Josh Wilson says:

Sep 17, 01:31 PM

one of the core notions of being a hacker as i understand it is simply pushing buttons to see what happens ... so yeah, practice, iteration, experimentation ... seem key.

Dave Goodchild says:

Sep 17, 01:31 PM

again - maybe not - I'd choose one out of PHP, Ruby or Python. The big three dynamic languages.

david mason says:

Sep 17, 01:31 PM

let's not forget the linked web

Greg Willson says:

Sep 17, 01:31 PM

I agree, just jump in w/ wordpress & start editing some code basedon online 'recipies'

Dave Goodchild says:

Sep 17, 01:30 PM

think it will pay big dividends and you'll learn about web standards along the way

Burt Herman says:

Sep 17, 01:30 PM

http://help.hackshackers.com/questions/23/what-are-the-best-resources-for-journalists-without-coding-experience-to-get-thei

Burt Herman says:

Sep 17, 01:30 PM

here's a link from the help.hackshackers.com site on this question:

Dave Goodchild says:

Sep 17, 01:30 PM

I'd suggest processing.js over Flash (IMHO)

david mason says:

Sep 17, 01:27 PM

It's a bit controversial, but what the fact that journalism was created as an industry, compared to academia, other industry people, and "regular people" collecting and editing information

Chris Nicholson says:

Sep 17, 01:27 PM

@DaveG Wow!!

Dave Goodchild says:

Sep 17, 01:26 PM

50+ people came last time

Dave Goodchild says:

Sep 17, 01:26 PM

Chris, please do

Josh Wilson says:

Sep 17, 01:26 PM

For example, an radio journalist has to be able to sling ProTools ... is that analogous for an online journalist being able to sling CSS?

Chris Nicholson says:

Sep 17, 01:26 PM

Cheers, Dave Goodchild, I might have to check out that London meet-up!

david mason says:

Sep 17, 01:26 PM

test

Greg Willson says:

Sep 17, 01:25 PM

PR : immersion!

Dave Goodchild says:

Sep 17, 01:25 PM

for the London Hackshackers meetup: http://meetuplondon.hackshackers.com/

Steve Myers says:

Sep 17, 01:25 PM

I'd like to know what resources there are for journos to learn programming.

Matt Carroll says:

Sep 17, 01:25 PM

Rich: for people interested in learning more about programming, any ideas on which proogrammers to start with?

Josh Wilson says:

Sep 17, 01:25 PM

Would you say that technological competence on computers is similar to tech competence in any multimedia production form?

Dave Goodchild says:

Sep 17, 01:25 PM

to drop a link

Pattie Reaves says:

Sep 17, 01:25 PM

what do you think is required of learning to be "truly bilingual"?

Dave Goodchild says:

Sep 17, 01:25 PM

Just wanted

Chris Nicholson says:

Sep 17, 01:25 PM

I'll definitely check those links out, they sound awesome!

Mai Hoang says:

Sep 17, 01:24 PM

Yay. Lots of great links!

Phillip Smith says:

Sep 17, 01:24 PM

**Applause** :-)

Dave Goodchild says:

Sep 17, 01:23 PM

London Hackshackers here: http://meetuplondon.hackshackers.com/

Phillip Smith says:

Sep 17, 01:23 PM

Extra homework points if you sign-up on http://help.hackshackers.com

Dave Goodchild says:

Sep 17, 01:22 PM

Thanks for the inspiration Burt

Dave Goodchild says:

Sep 17, 01:21 PM

I was involved in rubyinthepub in London which has now evolved into the UK arm of Hackshackers

Dave Goodchild says:

Sep 17, 01:20 PM

on HacksHackers

Grant Hamilton says:

Sep 17, 01:20 PM

interesting that we're seeing this in sports first ... sounds like it could be quickly ported to a lot of business/markets stories

Dave Goodchild says:

Sep 17, 01:20 PM

when are we going to see these kind of courses in the UK!

Dave Goodchild says:

Sep 17, 01:20 PM

just as programmers often use frameworks to eliminate the grunt work, these kind of content generators that impart pure info, especially stats-centric info like sports, free journalists up to do higher level work that requires the human touch, ie pushes quality

Phillip Smith says:

Sep 17, 01:19 PM

@Grant Agreed. Good discussion of that here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/07/the_world_cup_and_a_call_to_ac.html

Kay Steiger says:

Sep 17, 01:19 PM

and fewer sports cliches!

Grant Hamilton says:

Sep 17, 01:18 PM

re: automated sports stories... frees up humans to do higher-value analysis, too, rather than by-the-numbers rewrites

Steve Myers says:

Sep 17, 01:17 PM

Quick correction: Congressional Quarterly hasn't been involved with PolitiFact for a long time. St. Pete Times is doing the national work and news orgs around the country are doing local versions.

Mai Hoang says:

Sep 17, 01:15 PM

Where you could watch video and judge how the skaters did.

Mai Hoang says:

Sep 17, 01:15 PM

The NBC Vancouver Olympics site not up anymore; but I remember the "You Be the Judge" for figure skating coverage.

Jeff Severns Guntzel says:

Sep 17, 01:14 PM

One more: http://minnesota.publicradio.org/projects/2008/05/budget_hero/

Grant Hamilton says:

Sep 17, 01:14 PM

another news game:

http://www.newsbreakergame.com/

Phillip Smith says:

Sep 17, 01:13 PM

Good example of "news games" http://www.gothamgazette.com/archive/interactive

Grant Hamilton says:

Sep 17, 01:07 PM

@Mai, if so, we can be lame together. I'm a little jazzed, too.

Mai Hoang says:

Sep 17, 01:07 PM

@Grant! I am sort of excited about doing homework. Am I lame?

Phillip Smith says:

Sep 17, 01:07 PM

Yay for homework! :)

Dave Goodchild says:

Sep 17, 01:05 PM

may be better to agree on a shorter hashtag say #opj? |

Grant Hamilton says:

Sep 17, 01:05 PM

homework! I feel young again :)

Comments

Somewhere, I know I saw the

Pattie Reaves

Sat, 2010-09-18 05:01

Somewhere, I know I saw the reading assignments, but I've gone through this forum and can't find those pages. Can someone help me out?

link to this comment

Nevermind, silly me, it's

Sat, 2010-09-18 05:09

Nevermind, silly me, it's here in Week #1: http://p2pu.org/general/node/5644/document/9332

Has anyone considered an MP3

David Medinets

Mon, 2010-09-20 03:48

Has anyone considered an MP3 speech to text conversion service? Would it be ok for me to explore doing this or are the copyright considerations for the MP3?

Open Journalism & the Open Web

Course Material

Opening Lecture with Rich Gordon & Burt Herman

Comments

Somewhere, I know I saw the

Nevermind, silly me, it's

Has anyone considered an MP3