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Copyright for Educators, Cycle 2 - Mar 2010
Course Material
- Center for the study of the public domain
- Lime Group Discussion Space Week 3
- Lime Group Discussion Space Week 2
- Lime Group Discussion Space Week 1
- Violet Group Discussion Space Week 4
- Violet Group Discussion Space Week 3
- Violet Group Discussion Space Week 2
- Violet Group Discussion Space Week 1
- Brown Group Discussion Space Week 4
- Brown Group Discussion Space Week 3
- Brown Group Discussion Space Week 1
- Aqua Group Discussion Space Week 6
- Aqua Group Discussion Space Week 5
- Aqua Group Discussion Space Week 4
- Aqua Group Discussion Space Week 3
- Red Group Discussion Space Week 6
- Aqua Group Discussion Space Week 2
- Aqua Group Discussion Space Week 1
- Red Group Discussion Space Week 5
- Red Group Discussion Space Week 4
- Red Group Discussion Space Week 3
- Red Group Discussion Space Week 2
- Red Group Discussion Space Week 1
- Orange Group Discussion Space Week 6
- Orange Group Discussion Space Week 5
- Orange Group Discussion Space Week 4
- Orange Group Discussion Space Week 3
- Orange Group Discussion Space Week 2
- Orange Group Discussion Space Week 1
- Blue Group Discussion Space Week 6
- Blue Group Discussion Space Week 5
- Blue Group Discussion Space Week 4
- Blue Group Discussion Space Week 3
- Blue Group Discussion Space Week 2
- Blue Group Discussion Space Week 1
- Gold Group Discussion Space Week 6
- Gold Group Discussion Space Week 1
- Pink Group Discussion Space Week 6
- Pink Group Discussion Space Week 5
- Pink Group Discussion Space Week 4
- Pink Group Discussion Space Week 3
- Pink Group Discussion Space Week 2
- Pink Group Discussion Space Week 1
- Week 3 Readings
- Week 5 Readings
- Week 2 Readings
- Week 4 Readings
- Week 1 Readings
- Week 6 Final Assignment Readings
- Prescribed Texts/Websites
- Class Groups
- Weekly Assignment Submission Dates and Times
- Expectations
- How this course works?
- Grading
Except where otherwise noted, all content on p2pu.org is
licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported
License.
Comments
Greetings
Hello, Annie, Anne and Beverly,
Nice to be working with you! It's a small world... I did once work with Anne many years ago, but I don't think I've met Annie or Bev before. I'm looking forward to chatting and learning with you.
I thought I'd kick things off here by quickly introducing myself and sparking our first discussion off. I work at PLC Sydney in the capacity of ICT Integrator. I work with students and teachers to help them integrate technology into the classroom to make the learning richer. In doing this, I find myself constantly needing to evaluate the use of materials which may or may not face issues of copyright. I try to make good use of Creative Commons and OER materials as much as possible, but it's not always possible, so I find that I'd like to know more about copyright. I do think that copyright is somewhat of a broken system in a digital age, and I'd like to ultimately see the system change to be a little more realistic and usable. I find the grey areas in conventional copyright quite frustrating, and would like to see it made less vague.
Anyway, what about you guys? Tell us a bit about yourself.
Chris
PS: I've got a few commitments over the next month at conferences so I'm going to have to try hard to work this course into my available times. However, I don't want to let the team down, so I'll do my best to meet all our deadlines.
Communication Channels
Also, we will need to organise a few live chats I imagine. Can you all reply to this message with as many contact details as you can so we can figure out the most appropriate channel to do so.
Mine is as follows:
Twitter: @betchaboy
Skype: betchaboy
iChat: betchaboy@me.com
email: betchaboy@gmail.com
I would suggest we do a 4-way voice call over Skype. It's simple, it's free and most people already have it.
Not sure what times work for you (or where in Australia you are) but can we pick a time where we all meet online?
Over to you.
Chat times
HI Chris
I am a Teacher-Librarian with the title of Online Learning Co-ordinator. I do work very similar to yours at Launceston Church Grammar School in Launceston. I have been given the mantel of "copyright person" - for better or worse!!
I think I will have to have my chats in the evening at home. I do not have enough uninterrupted time here at school. Can you suggest a time - any evening except Wednesdays are good for me.
Beverly sent me an email yesterday - she suggested we take one topic each and then present it for discussion before presentation. What do you think?
REgards
Annie
Email: amyers@lcgs.tas.edu.au
I was neglected :-(
Hi all,
My name is Brooke and Delia has informed me that I am part of this group but that she forgot to add me to the list so..... surprise!
Introductions: I work at the University of Melbourne for our copyright office. Our office is the place for all your copyright information needs and a major component of my position is to train the academic community in how to use copyright material compliantly. Why am I here? i like to keep training and i like to see how other like to learn too.
Now to technicalities - My preference would be for during business hours - sorry! I could possibly talk late on weeknights but Wednesday and Tuesday nights are already otherwise engaged. I am more than happy with divvying up the work and coming back for discussions.
Talk soon.
Discussion
HI Brooke, Chris, Beverly and Anne
I am concerned about time for discussion next week. Our school musical production is on WEd, Thurs and Fri nights of next week so I will be unavailable for a discussion. I have had a look at our first assignment and I am formulating responses. Where do we go from here?
do you think it might be best
do you think it might be best if we all work through the questions, post them up and then we make some decisions from there?
Discussion
HI All
Because of time contraints, I think your suggestion is probably the only way we can do this before we have to submit the assignment. Who is going to submit it??
Cheers
Annie
testing this reply
I just wrote a long reply to this message from Annie, but it never appeared in the thread. Just testing before I waste time doing it again...
We need to talk
We can't really submit anything until we talk and discuss the ideas in the problem we have been set (http://p2pu.org/assignment/case-study-scenario-week-1)
This is a very complicated scenario (in my opinion) and I'd like to explore it fully.
I don't find this P2PU environment very intuitive or obvious, and the way it scatters responses in a non-threaded form is very fragmented. Perhaps we should use something like a wiki to discuss this stuff? I'd still like to set up a regular time for a live chat using Skype or similar. I do think that we can get way more done in less time if we can make these regular chats happen for the next 6 weeks.
I have some major time constraints with travel and conference committments over the next 4 or 5 weeks )oh, and a day job too!) so I think the sooner we can get together and plan our strategy for dealing with this course the better. At this stage I don't know anyone's email address other than Annie's. (thanks Annie)
I've written to Delia to ask if it's ok if we use an external resources such as a wiki... haven't heard back yet.
My preference for live chat would be in the afternoon/evenings, although I could probably do it during school hours if I had to. Like Annie said, my day is usually so busy and interrupted that getting a clear shot of time is always a challenge, although after 3:30pm is not such a problem most days. I know Brooke said she would prefer not to do evenings, but what about in the afternoons?
Chris
Chris did not get your email
Chris
did not get your email re wiki question.
The discussion space is a wiki space for you all to draft your answers to the question. Suggest you copy and paste the questions here and start drafting editing here
Cheers
Delia
Chris did not get your email
Chris
did not get your email re wiki question.
The discussion space is a wiki space for you all to draft your answers to the question. Suggest you copy and paste the questions here and start drafting editing here
Cheers
Delia
Question 1 development
Here is the Week 1 question, and a few of my thoughts to begin. Please add/edit to them.
Case Scenario 1
Zanele Dube is a science teacher at a high school. She has created an interactive science unit on DVD for her school students using the following resources:
* Extracts from Charles Darwin's personal diaries and notebooks
* Images of Darwin etc from http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/interactive/2009/feb/12/charles-darwin
* Extracts from Darwin's book "the Origin of the Species"
* Genetic Code Chart from http://www.indiana.edu/~ensiweb/lessons/psa.gc.pdf
* A clip from the BBC TV science documentary series “Life" with David Attenborough she taped from television.
* Clips from the film " Creation”
* Her own original drawings and photographs of animals, trees and fauna
* Her own original quizzes, research, teaching notes and text about Darwin.
She plans to make 20 DVD copies of the resource to give to her students to use as part of the class group science project. She recently showed the resource at a Science Teacher conference. After the conference she was approached by an educational publisher who would like to publish and reproduce the resource.
Questions (to be answered by each group)
1. Identify the types of copyright works or other subject in the material she wants to use.
* (CB) Would Darwin's diaries still be covered by copyright? Copyright lasts the lifetime of the author plus 70 years, and since Darwin died in 1882, the works are likely to be out of copyright (unless of course the rights were bought by a publisher or someone else... even so, are the new copyright owners entitled to take the copyright beyond the 70 years? I don't know)
* The images of Darwin found on the Guardian website are unclear as to who owns the copyright. The Guardian itself makes a clain for copyright at the bottom of the page, but unless it actually owns the rights to the photos of Darwin (which I doubt) then that copyright symbol might be a little misleading. I can't see how they can claim the whole page as copyrighted if it contains images they don't own. I can't see any attribution for the images to another source. If Zanele wants to play it safe, there are images of Darwin on Wikipedia that are Creative Commons licenced that she could use with attribution.
* "On the Origin of Species" was published in 1859, so I have to assume that it is no longer covered by copyright since it was written long before the 70 year limit. Or do the rights pass to a publisher of the work? Also, does Australian copyright law apply here, since the work was no published in Australia?
* Re the Indiana Uni document, it's unclear as to whether it's under copyright, but there is an address on the website that one could write to ask permission just to be sure. For school use, I would guess that it would be safe to use the chart, but I think permission would be needed to include on a handout CD, and almost certainly for republishing commercially.
* The clips from the BBC doco and the Creation film may be ok to use with her class, depending on how much was used, and under what circumstances. It doesn't say in the scenario how much of the shows she used, but providing it wasn't taken in totality, she could probably show the clips in class with no problems. I think Zanele probably runs into big copyright issues when she puts these clips on a CD, since this format shift does not meet all the requirements, in particular rule 4 about not prejudicing the copyright owner by giving it away.
2. Identify the copyright owner for each category of work or other subject matter.
* Personal notebooks and diaries of Darwin, images and even "Origin" itself are all probably in the public domain, since they are old enough to predate the copyright statute of 70 years. Would need to check that the rights are not held by a publisher or museum.
* Genetic Code copyright for that particular document may be held by Indiana University, but they probably do not own any rights to the ideas or information which the document explains. Since copyright only protects the physical expression of the ideas and not the ideas themselves, it would not be difficult to make your own copy of the document based on the same information.
* The clips are probably owned by the BBC and the producers of Creation. You'd need to read the credits on each one to find out exactly who owns them.
* The original drawing and photographs, texts, puzzles and notes, etc, would be owned by Zanele , but since she has produced this work as part of her role as an employed teacher, the copyright passes to her employer. The school would hold copyright, but Zanele would still have some claim to the Moral Rights to the work. This means that Zanele would need to be credited as the creator of these works, although the school would have control over how they get used.
3. Identify which of the above works or other subject matter are still in copyright.
See the above answers for general responses that include answers to this question.
However, in relation to the films, I'm curious as to know who owns the copyright. If the copyright is held by the organisation (the BBC), then how does the "70 years beyond the authors death" rule apply? Also, the BBC copyrights may not fall under Australian Copyright law.
4. Is Zanele Dube's resource protected by copyright?
My guess is that Zanele surrenders her rights as a copyright owner to the school since she produced the work whil in their employ.
5. Does the Publisher need permission to reproduce the resource and/or any of the above included in the resource ?
I don't think the publisher will be able to reproduce (and presumably sell) the resource since it contains significant chunks of other people's work. The film clips will be particularly problematic. Although there are parts of this resource that are probably in the public domain, the school would own the copyright on the final product, not Zanele.
Summary:
This question points out what a minefield the copyright issue really is. In this simple resource intended to help her teach her students and share with other educators, we see the problems that arise from a mix of various rights holders and the complications that happen when interest in such a resource is picked up by a commercial entity. There is such a tangle of rights and permissions that it becomes near impossible to sort out who has the rights to what, and it is unlikely that the resource could be legally used in it's current form by almost anybody.
I'm hoping that the rest of my group will now add to some of the ideas I've raised here and extend them with further discussion.
By the way, I think this P2PU tool is hopelessly inadequate for these types of discussions! We need a proper wiki!
Questions to assist your understanding (not be answered)
1. What is copyright
2. What activities does copyright prohibit ?
3. Does copyright protect ideas or only expressions?
4. What requirements must a resource meet for copyright to apply?
5. What are the rights of authors/copyright owners?
6. Who owns copyright in employment situations?
7. What is the public domain? When does something enter the public domain?
Question 1 development
Here is the Week 1 question, and a few of my thoughts to begin. Please add/edit to them.
Case Scenario 1
Zanele Dube is a science teacher at a high school. She has created an interactive science unit on DVD for her school students using the following resources:
* Extracts from Charles Darwin's personal diaries and notebooks
* Images of Darwin etc from http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/interactive/2009/feb/12/charles-darwin
* Extracts from Darwin's book "the Origin of the Species"
* Genetic Code Chart from http://www.indiana.edu/~ensiweb/lessons/psa.gc.pdf
* A clip from the BBC TV science documentary series “Life" with David Attenborough she taped from television.
* Clips from the film " Creation”
* Her own original drawings and photographs of animals, trees and fauna
* Her own original quizzes, research, teaching notes and text about Darwin.
She plans to make 20 DVD copies of the resource to give to her students to use as part of the class group science project. She recently showed the resource at a Science Teacher conference. After the conference she was approached by an educational publisher who would like to publish and reproduce the resource.
Questions (to be answered by each group)
1. Identify the types of copyright works or other subject in the material she wants to use.
* (CB) Would Darwin's diaries still be covered by copyright? Copyright lasts the lifetime of the author plus 70 years, and since Darwin died in 1882, the works are likely to be out of copyright (unless of course the rights were bought by a publisher or someone else... even so, are the new copyright owners entitled to take the copyright beyond the 70 years? I don't know)
* The images of Darwin found on the Guardian website are unclear as to who owns the copyright. The Guardian itself makes a clain for copyright at the bottom of the page, but unless it actually owns the rights to the photos of Darwin (which I doubt) then that copyright symbol might be a little misleading. I can't see how they can claim the whole page as copyrighted if it contains images they don't own. I can't see any attribution for the images to another source. If Zanele wants to play it safe, there are images of Darwin on Wikipedia that are Creative Commons licenced that she could use with attribution.
* "On the Origin of Species" was published in 1859, so I have to assume that it is no longer covered by copyright since it was written long before the 70 year limit. Or do the rights pass to a publisher of the work? Also, does Australian copyright law apply here, since the work was no published in Australia?
* Re the Indiana Uni document, it's unclear as to whether it's under copyright, but there is an address on the website that one could write to ask permission just to be sure. For school use, I would guess that it would be safe to use the chart, but I think permission would be needed to include on a handout CD, and almost certainly for republishing commercially.
* The clips from the BBC doco and the Creation film may be ok to use with her class, depending on how much was used, and under what circumstances. It doesn't say in the scenario how much of the shows she used, but providing it wasn't taken in totality, she could probably show the clips in class with no problems. I think Zanele probably runs into big copyright issues when she puts these clips on a CD, since this format shift does not meet all the requirements, in particular rule 4 about not prejudicing the copyright owner by giving it away.
2. Identify the copyright owner for each category of work or other subject matter.
* Personal notebooks and diaries of Darwin, images and even "Origin" itself are all probably in the public domain, since they are old enough to predate the copyright statute of 70 years. Would need to check that the rights are not held by a publisher or museum.
* Genetic Code copyright for that particular document may be held by Indiana University, but they probably do not own any rights to the ideas or information which the document explains. Since copyright only protects the physical expression of the ideas and not the ideas themselves, it would not be difficult to make your own copy of the document based on the same information.
* The clips are probably owned by the BBC and the producers of Creation. You'd need to read the credits on each one to find out exactly who owns them.
* The original drawing and photographs, texts, puzzles and notes, etc, would be owned by Zanele , but since she has produced this work as part of her role as an employed teacher, the copyright passes to her employer. The school would hold copyright, but Zanele would still have some claim to the Moral Rights to the work. This means that Zanele would need to be credited as the creator of these works, although the school would have control over how they get used.
3. Identify which of the above works or other subject matter are still in copyright.
See the above answers for general responses that include answers to this question.
However, in relation to the films, I'm curious as to know who owns the copyright. If the copyright is held by the organisation (the BBC), then how does the "70 years beyond the authors death" rule apply? Also, the BBC copyrights may not fall under Australian Copyright law.
4. Is Zanele Dube's resource protected by copyright?
My guess is that Zanele surrenders her rights as a copyright owner to the school since she produced the work whil in their employ.
5. Does the Publisher need permission to reproduce the resource and/or any of the above included in the resource ?
I don't think the publisher will be able to reproduce (and presumably sell) the resource since it contains significant chunks of other people's work. The film clips will be particularly problematic. Although there are parts of this resource that are probably in the public domain, the school would own the copyright on the final product, not Zanele.
Summary:
This question points out what a minefield the copyright issue really is. In this simple resource intended to help her teach her students and share with other educators, we see the problems that arise from a mix of various rights holders and the complications that happen when interest in such a resource is picked up by a commercial entity. There is such a tangle of rights and permissions that it becomes near impossible to sort out who has the rights to what, and it is unlikely that the resource could be legally used in it's current form by almost anybody.
I'm hoping that the rest of my group will now add to some of the ideas I've raised here and extend them with further discussion.
By the way, I think this P2PU tool is hopelessly inadequate for these types of discussions! We need a proper wiki!
Questions to assist your understanding (not be answered)
1. What is copyright
2. What activities does copyright prohibit ?
3. Does copyright protect ideas or only expressions?
4. What requirements must a resource meet for copyright to apply?
5. What are the rights of authors/copyright owners?
6. Who owns copyright in employment situations?
7. What is the public domain? When does something enter the public domain?
Question 1 development
Here is the Week 1 question, and a few of my thoughts to begin. Please add/edit to them.
Case Scenario 1
Zanele Dube is a science teacher at a high school. She has created an interactive science unit on DVD for her school students using the following resources:
* Extracts from Charles Darwin's personal diaries and notebooks
* Images of Darwin etc from http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/interactive/2009/feb/12/charles-darwin
* Extracts from Darwin's book "the Origin of the Species"
* Genetic Code Chart from http://www.indiana.edu/~ensiweb/lessons/psa.gc.pdf
* A clip from the BBC TV science documentary series “Life" with David Attenborough she taped from television.
* Clips from the film " Creation”
* Her own original drawings and photographs of animals, trees and fauna
* Her own original quizzes, research, teaching notes and text about Darwin.
She plans to make 20 DVD copies of the resource to give to her students to use as part of the class group science project. She recently showed the resource at a Science Teacher conference. After the conference she was approached by an educational publisher who would like to publish and reproduce the resource.
Questions (to be answered by each group)
1. Identify the types of copyright works or other subject in the material she wants to use.
* (CB) Would Darwin's diaries still be covered by copyright? Copyright lasts the lifetime of the author plus 70 years, and since Darwin died in 1882, the works are likely to be out of copyright (unless of course the rights were bought by a publisher or someone else... even so, are the new copyright owners entitled to take the copyright beyond the 70 years? I don't know)
* The images of Darwin found on the Guardian website are unclear as to who owns the copyright. The Guardian itself makes a clain for copyright at the bottom of the page, but unless it actually owns the rights to the photos of Darwin (which I doubt) then that copyright symbol might be a little misleading. I can't see how they can claim the whole page as copyrighted if it contains images they don't own. I can't see any attribution for the images to another source. If Zanele wants to play it safe, there are images of Darwin on Wikipedia that are Creative Commons licenced that she could use with attribution.
* "On the Origin of Species" was published in 1859, so I have to assume that it is no longer covered by copyright since it was written long before the 70 year limit. Or do the rights pass to a publisher of the work? Also, does Australian copyright law apply here, since the work was no published in Australia?
* Re the Indiana Uni document, it's unclear as to whether it's under copyright, but there is an address on the website that one could write to ask permission just to be sure. For school use, I would guess that it would be safe to use the chart, but I think permission would be needed to include on a handout CD, and almost certainly for republishing commercially.
* The clips from the BBC doco and the Creation film may be ok to use with her class, depending on how much was used, and under what circumstances. It doesn't say in the scenario how much of the shows she used, but providing it wasn't taken in totality, she could probably show the clips in class with no problems. I think Zanele probably runs into big copyright issues when she puts these clips on a CD, since this format shift does not meet all the requirements, in particular rule 4 about not prejudicing the copyright owner by giving it away.
2. Identify the copyright owner for each category of work or other subject matter.
* Personal notebooks and diaries of Darwin, images and even "Origin" itself are all probably in the public domain, since they are old enough to predate the copyright statute of 70 years. Would need to check that the rights are not held by a publisher or museum.
* Genetic Code copyright for that particular document may be held by Indiana University, but they probably do not own any rights to the ideas or information which the document explains. Since copyright only protects the physical expression of the ideas and not the ideas themselves, it would not be difficult to make your own copy of the document based on the same information.
* The clips are probably owned by the BBC and the producers of Creation. You'd need to read the credits on each one to find out exactly who owns them.
* The original drawing and photographs, texts, puzzles and notes, etc, would be owned by Zanele , but since she has produced this work as part of her role as an employed teacher, the copyright passes to her employer. The school would hold copyright, but Zanele would still have some claim to the Moral Rights to the work. This means that Zanele would need to be credited as the creator of these works, although the school would have control over how they get used.
3. Identify which of the above works or other subject matter are still in copyright.
See the above answers for general responses that include answers to this question.
However, in relation to the films, I'm curious as to know who owns the copyright. If the copyright is held by the organisation (the BBC), then how does the "70 years beyond the authors death" rule apply? Also, the BBC copyrights may not fall under Australian Copyright law.
4. Is Zanele Dube's resource protected by copyright?
My guess is that Zanele surrenders her rights as a copyright owner to the school since she produced the work whil in their employ.
5. Does the Publisher need permission to reproduce the resource and/or any of the above included in the resource ?
I don't think the publisher will be able to reproduce (and presumably sell) the resource since it contains significant chunks of other people's work. The film clips will be particularly problematic. Although there are parts of this resource that are probably in the public domain, the school would own the copyright on the final product, not Zanele.
Summary:
This question points out what a minefield the copyright issue really is. In this simple resource intended to help her teach her students and share with other educators, we see the problems that arise from a mix of various rights holders and the complications that happen when interest in such a resource is picked up by a commercial entity. There is such a tangle of rights and permissions that it becomes near impossible to sort out who has the rights to what, and it is unlikely that the resource could be legally used in it's current form by almost anybody.
I'm hoping that the rest of my group will now add to some of the ideas I've raised here and extend them with further discussion.
By the way, I think this P2PU tool is hopelessly inadequate for these types of discussions! We need a proper wiki!
Questions to assist your understanding (not be answered)
1. What is copyright
2. What activities does copyright prohibit ?
3. Does copyright protect ideas or only expressions?
4. What requirements must a resource meet for copyright to apply?
5. What are the rights of authors/copyright owners?
6. Who owns copyright in employment situations?
7. What is the public domain? When does something enter the public domain?
Question 1 development
Here is the Week 1 question, and a few of my thoughts to begin. Please add/edit to them.
Case Scenario 1
Zanele Dube is a science teacher at a high school. She has created an interactive science unit on DVD for her school students using the following resources:
* Extracts from Charles Darwin's personal diaries and notebooks
* Images of Darwin etc from http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/interactive/2009/feb/12/charles-darwin
* Extracts from Darwin's book "the Origin of the Species"
* Genetic Code Chart from http://www.indiana.edu/~ensiweb/lessons/psa.gc.pdf
* A clip from the BBC TV science documentary series “Life" with David Attenborough she taped from television.
* Clips from the film " Creation”
* Her own original drawings and photographs of animals, trees and fauna
* Her own original quizzes, research, teaching notes and text about Darwin.
She plans to make 20 DVD copies of the resource to give to her students to use as part of the class group science project. She recently showed the resource at a Science Teacher conference. After the conference she was approached by an educational publisher who would like to publish and reproduce the resource.
Questions (to be answered by each group)
1. Identify the types of copyright works or other subject in the material she wants to use.
* (CB) Would Darwin's diaries still be covered by copyright? Copyright lasts the lifetime of the author plus 70 years, and since Darwin died in 1882, the works are likely to be out of copyright (unless of course the rights were bought by a publisher or someone else... even so, are the new copyright owners entitled to take the copyright beyond the 70 years? I don't know)
* The images of Darwin found on the Guardian website are unclear as to who owns the copyright. The Guardian itself makes a clain for copyright at the bottom of the page, but unless it actually owns the rights to the photos of Darwin (which I doubt) then that copyright symbol might be a little misleading. I can't see how they can claim the whole page as copyrighted if it contains images they don't own. I can't see any attribution for the images to another source. If Zanele wants to play it safe, there are images of Darwin on Wikipedia that are Creative Commons licenced that she could use with attribution.
* "On the Origin of Species" was published in 1859, so I have to assume that it is no longer covered by copyright since it was written long before the 70 year limit. Or do the rights pass to a publisher of the work? Also, does Australian copyright law apply here, since the work was no published in Australia?
* Re the Indiana Uni document, it's unclear as to whether it's under copyright, but there is an address on the website that one could write to ask permission just to be sure. For school use, I would guess that it would be safe to use the chart, but I think permission would be needed to include on a handout CD, and almost certainly for republishing commercially.
* The clips from the BBC doco and the Creation film may be ok to use with her class, depending on how much was used, and under what circumstances. It doesn't say in the scenario how much of the shows she used, but providing it wasn't taken in totality, she could probably show the clips in class with no problems. I think Zanele probably runs into big copyright issues when she puts these clips on a CD, since this format shift does not meet all the requirements, in particular rule 4 about not prejudicing the copyright owner by giving it away.
2. Identify the copyright owner for each category of work or other subject matter.
* Personal notebooks and diaries of Darwin, images and even "Origin" itself are all probably in the public domain, since they are old enough to predate the copyright statute of 70 years. Would need to check that the rights are not held by a publisher or museum.
* Genetic Code copyright for that particular document may be held by Indiana University, but they probably do not own any rights to the ideas or information which the document explains. Since copyright only protects the physical expression of the ideas and not the ideas themselves, it would not be difficult to make your own copy of the document based on the same information.
* The clips are probably owned by the BBC and the producers of Creation. You'd need to read the credits on each one to find out exactly who owns them.
* The original drawing and photographs, texts, puzzles and notes, etc, would be owned by Zanele , but since she has produced this work as part of her role as an employed teacher, the copyright passes to her employer. The school would hold copyright, but Zanele would still have some claim to the Moral Rights to the work. This means that Zanele would need to be credited as the creator of these works, although the school would have control over how they get used.
3. Identify which of the above works or other subject matter are still in copyright.
See the above answers for general responses that include answers to this question.
However, in relation to the films, I'm curious as to know who owns the copyright. If the copyright is held by the organisation (the BBC), then how does the "70 years beyond the authors death" rule apply? Also, the BBC copyrights may not fall under Australian Copyright law.
4. Is Zanele Dube's resource protected by copyright?
My guess is that Zanele surrenders her rights as a copyright owner to the school since she produced the work whil in their employ.
5. Does the Publisher need permission to reproduce the resource and/or any of the above included in the resource ?
I don't think the publisher will be able to reproduce (and presumably sell) the resource since it contains significant chunks of other people's work. The film clips will be particularly problematic. Although there are parts of this resource that are probably in the public domain, the school would own the copyright on the final product, not Zanele.
Summary:
This question points out what a minefield the copyright issue really is. In this simple resource intended to help her teach her students and share with other educators, we see the problems that arise from a mix of various rights holders and the complications that happen when interest in such a resource is picked up by a commercial entity. There is such a tangle of rights and permissions that it becomes near impossible to sort out who has the rights to what, and it is unlikely that the resource could be legally used in it's current form by almost anybody.
I'm hoping that the rest of my group will now add to some of the ideas I've raised here and extend them with further discussion.
By the way, I think this P2PU tool is hopelessly inadequate for these types of discussions! We need a proper wiki!
Questions to assist your understanding (not be answered)
1. What is copyright
2. What activities does copyright prohibit ?
3. Does copyright protect ideas or only expressions?
4. What requirements must a resource meet for copyright to apply?
5. What are the rights of authors/copyright owners?
6. Who owns copyright in employment situations?
7. What is the public domain? When does something enter the public domain?
Move to a wiki for our dicussions
After having lost one reasonably detailed post to this forum, having a message to Delia go completely astray, and being unable to post a lengthy response to the Week 1 question, I am losing faith in the ability of this disussion board to deliver a workable collaborative environment for this course.
To that end, I have taken the liberty of setting up a wiki at http://copyrightorange.wikispaces.com/
This wiki is currently set to private and is not viewable to anyone on the outside. If you are ok with using this please let me know and register yourself there as a wiki user so you can contribute.
I will register Annie since I have her email address, but I don't know the emails for everyone else.
Hope you don't mind me doing this... I just want a workable environment for us to think together in.
Move to a wiki for our dicussions
After having lost one reasonably detailed post to this forum, having a message to Delia go completely astray, and being unable to post a lengthy response to the Week 1 question, I am losing faith in the ability of this disussion board to deliver a workable collaborative environment for this course.
To that end, I have taken the liberty of setting up a wiki at http://copyrightorange.wikispaces.com/
This wiki is currently set to private and is not viewable to anyone on the outside. If you are ok with using this please let me know and register yourself there as a wiki user so you can contribute.
I will register Annie since I have her email address, but I don't know the emails for everyone else.
Hope you don't mind me doing this... I just want a workable environment for us to think together in.
Move to a wiki for our dicussions
After having lost one reasonably detailed post to this forum, having a message to Delia go completely astray, and being unable to post a lengthy response to the Week 1 question, I am losing faith in the ability of this disussion board to deliver a workable collaborative environment for this course.
To that end, I have taken the liberty of setting up a wiki at http://copyrightorange.wikispaces.com/
This wiki is currently set to private and is not viewable to anyone on the outside. If you are ok with using this please let me know and register yourself there as a wiki user so you can contribute.
I will register Annie since I have her email address, but I don't know the emails for everyone else.
Hope you don't mind me doing this... I just want a workable environment for us to think together in.
move to a wiki?
After having lost one reasonably detailed post to this forum, having a message to Delia go completely astray, and being unable to post a lengthy response to the Week 1 question, I am losing faith in the ability of this disussion board to deliver a workable collaborative environment for this course.
To that end, I have taken the liberty of setting up a wiki at http://copyrightorange.wikispaces.com/
This wiki is currently set to private and is not viewable to anyone on the outside. If you are ok with using this please let me know and register yourself there as a wiki user so you can contribute.
I will register Annie since I have her email address, but I don't know the emails for everyone else.
Hope you don't mind me doing this... I just want a workable environment for us to think together in.
move to a wiki?
After having lost one reasonably detailed post to this forum, having a message to Delia go completely astray, and being unable to post a lengthy response to the Week 1 question, I am losing faith in the ability of this disussion board to deliver a workable collaborative environment for this course.
To that end, I have taken the liberty of setting up a wiki at http://copyrightorange.wikispaces.com/
This wiki is currently set to private and is not viewable to anyone on the outside. If you are ok with using this please let me know and register yourself there as a wiki user so you can contribute.
I will register Annie since I have her email address, but I don't know the emails for everyone else.
Hope you don't mind me doing this... I just want a workable environment for us to think together in.
Forum troubles
Hi Delia,
I'm having rela problems with this forum here on P2PU. Could you give me a call when you get a chance so we can sort it out? 0433 592 802
Chris
wiki anyone?
After having lost one reasonably detailed post to this forum, having a message to Delia go completely astray, and being unable to post a lengthy response to the Week 1 question, I am losing faith in the ability of this disussion board to deliver a workable collaborative environment for this course.
To that end, I have taken the liberty of setting up a wiki at http://copyrightorange.wikispaces.com/
This wiki is currently set to private and is not viewable to anyone on the outside. If you are ok with using this please let me know and register yourself there as a wiki user so you can contribute.
I will register Annie since I have her email address, but I don't know the emails for everyone else.
Hope you don't mind me doing this... I just want a workable environment for us to think together in.
skype discussion
Hi Chris
I would be happy to have a group discussion via skype after school - around 4.00 for and hour or so. Please let me know when we will attempt this as I have to set everything up.
Cheers
Annie
Discussion
Chris
I am happy to have a discussion on Skype after school - from 4.00 for an hour or so. I will need some notice so that I can set some things up .
Cheers
Annie
Greetings
Hello to the Orange group. I am a bit confused if I am in the Orange group or the Aqua group, because when i log on, I seem to get Aqua group(???). I emailed Delia last week, and again today, but haven't heard back, so I will presume I am in Orange group and the Aqua is a site problem.
I am a Teacher Librarian / Coordinator of Library and Information Services at St Clare's College, in the ACT. I am in the process of moving, and am in temporary accommodation without Skype / internet access of an evening. I am at school until 6.30pm, so any discussions before then would suit me. at the moment, I am missing my out of hours internet access.
Hello, Chris - good to hear that you and I are in the same group.Welcome Annie, Beverly and Brooke. Let's hope we can make a success of this. I've been doing some of the reading, and am interested to see what the scenarios are.
Thanks for the wiki details, Chris.
Regards, Anne
Discussion question 1
Identify the types of copyright works or other subject in the material she wants to use.
Discussion question 2
Identify the copyright owner for each category of work or other subject matter.
Discussion question 3
Identify which of the above works or other subject matter are still in copyright.
Discussion question 4
Is Zanele Dube's resource protected by copyright?
Discussion topic 5
Does the Publisher need permission to reproduce the resource and/or any of the above included in the resource ?
Use a wiki?
After having lost one reasonably detailed post to this forum, having a message to Delia go completely astray, and being unable to post a lengthy response to the Week 1 question, I am losing faith in the ability of this disussion board to deliver a workable collaborative environment for this course.
To that end, I have taken the liberty of setting up a wiki at http://copyrightorange.wikispaces.com/
This wiki is currently set to private and is not viewable to anyone on the outside. If you are ok with using this please let me know and register yourself there as a wiki user so you can contribute.
I will register Annie since I have her email address, but I don't know the emails for everyone else.
Hope you don't mind me doing this... I just want a workable environment for us to think together in.
Use a wiki?
After having lost one reasonably detailed post to this forum, having a message to Delia go completely astray, and being unable to post a lengthy response to the Week 1 question, I am losing faith in the ability of this disussion board to deliver a workable collaborative environment for this course.
To that end, I have taken the liberty of setting up a wiki at http://copyrightorange.wikispaces.com/
This wiki is currently set to private and is not viewable to anyone on the outside. If you are ok with using this please let me know and register yourself there as a wiki user so you can contribute.
I will register Annie since I have her email address, but I don't know the emails for everyone else.
Hope you don't mind me doing this... I just want a workable environment for us to think together in.
Week 1 ideas
Here is the Week 1 question, and a few of my thoughts to begin. Please add/edit to them.
Case Scenario 1
Zanele Dube is a science teacher at a high school. She has created an interactive science unit on DVD for her school students using the following resources:
* Extracts from Charles Darwin's personal diaries and notebooks
* Images of Darwin etc from http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/interactive/2009/feb/12/charles-darwin
* Extracts from Darwin's book "the Origin of the Species"
* Genetic Code Chart from http://www.indiana.edu/~ensiweb/lessons/psa.gc.pdf
* A clip from the BBC TV science documentary series ìLife" with David Attenborough she taped from television.
* Clips from the film " Creationî
* Her own original drawings and photographs of animals, trees and fauna
* Her own original quizzes, research, teaching notes and text about Darwin.
She plans to make 20 DVD copies of the resource to give to her students to use as part of the class group science project. She recently showed the resource at a Science Teacher conference. After the conference she was approached by an educational publisher who would like to publish and reproduce the resource.
Questions (to be answered by each group)
1. Identify the types of copyright works or other subject in the material she wants to use.
* (CB) Would Darwin's diaries still be covered by copyright? Copyright lasts the lifetime of the author plus 70 years, and since Darwin died in 1882, the works are likely to be out of copyright (unless of course the rights were bought by a publisher or someone else... even so, are the new copyright owners entitled to take the copyright beyond the 70 years? I don't know)
* The images of Darwin found on the Guardian website are unclear as to who owns the copyright. The Guardian itself makes a clain for copyright at the bottom of the page, but unless it actually owns the rights to the photos of Darwin (which I doubt) then that copyright symbol might be a little misleading. I can't see how they can claim the whole page as copyrighted if it contains images they don't own. I can't see any attribution for the images to another source. If Zanele wants to play it safe, there are images of Darwin on Wikipedia that are Creative Commons licenced that she could use with attribution.
* "On the Origin of Species" was published in 1859, so I have to assume that it is no longer covered by copyright since it was written long before the 70 year limit. Or do the rights pass to a publisher of the work? Also, does Australian copyright law apply here, since the work was no published in Australia?
* Re the Indiana Uni document, it's unclear as to whether it's under copyright, but there is an address on the website that one could write to ask permission just to be sure. For school use, I would guess that it would be safe to use the chart, but I think permission would be needed to include on a handout CD, and almost certainly for republishing commercially.
* The clips from the BBC doco and the Creation film may be ok to use with her class, depending on how much was used, and under what circumstances. It doesn't say in the scenario how much of the shows she used, but providing it wasn't taken in totality, she could probably show the clips in class with no problems. I think Zanele probably runs into big copyright issues when she puts these clips on a CD, since this format shift does not meet all the requirements, in particular rule 4 about not prejudicing the copyright owner by giving it away.
2. Identify the copyright owner for each category of work or other subject matter.
* Personal notebooks and diaries of Darwin, images and even "Origin" itself are all probably in the public domain, since they are old enough to predate the copyright statute of 70 years. Would need to check that the rights are not held by a publisher or museum.
* Genetic Code copyright for that particular document may be held by Indiana University, but they probably do not own any rights to the ideas or information which the document explains. Since copyright only protects the physical expression of the ideas and not the ideas themselves, it would not be difficult to make your own copy of the document based on the same information.
* The clips are probably owned by the BBC and the producers of Creation. You'd need to read the credits on each one to find out exactly who owns them.
* The original drawing and photographs, texts, puzzles and notes, etc, would be owned by Zanele , but since she has produced this work as part of her role as an employed teacher, the copyright passes to her employer. The school would hold copyright, but Zanele would still have some claim to the Moral Rights to the work. This means that Zanele would need to be credited as the creator of these works, although the school would have control over how they get used.
3. Identify which of the above works or other subject matter are still in copyright.
See the above answers for general responses that include answers to this question.
However, in relation to the films, I'm curious as to know who owns the copyright. If the copyright is held by the organisation (the BBC), then how does the "70 years beyond the authors death" rule apply? Also, the BBC copyrights may not fall under Australian Copyright law.
4. Is Zanele Dube's resource protected by copyright?
My guess is that Zanele surrenders her rights as a copyright owner to the school since she produced the work whil in their employ.
5. Does the Publisher need permission to reproduce the resource and/or any of the above included in the resource ?
I don't think the publisher will be able to reproduce (and presumably sell) the resource since it contains significant chunks of other people's work. The film clips will be particularly problematic. Although there are parts of this resource that are probably in the public domain, the school would own the copyright on the final product, not Zanele.
Summary:
This question points out what a minefield the copyright issue really is. In this simple resource intended to help her teach her students and share with other educators, we see the problems that arise from a mix of various rights holders and the complications that happen when interest in such a resource is picked up by a commercial entity. There is such a tangle of rights and permissions that it becomes near impossible to sort out who has the rights to what, and it is unlikely that the resource could be legally used in it's current form by almost anybody.
I'm hoping that the rest of my group will now add to some of the ideas I've raised here and extend them with further discussion.
By the way, I think this P2PU tool is hopelessly inadequate for these types of discussions! We need a proper wiki!
Questions to assist your understanding (not be answered)
1. What is copyright
2. What activities does copyright prohibit ?
3. Does copyright protect ideas or only expressions?
4. What requirements must a resource meet for copyright to apply?
5. What are the rights of authors/copyright owners?
6. Who owns copyright in employment situations?
7. What is the public domain? When does something enter the public domain?
Week 1 ideas
Here is the Week 1 question, and a few of my thoughts to begin. Please add/edit to them.
Case Scenario 1
Zanele Dube is a science teacher at a high school. She has created an interactive science unit on DVD for her school students using the following resources:
* Extracts from Charles Darwin's personal diaries and notebooks
* Images of Darwin etc from http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/interactive/2009/feb/12/charles-darwin
* Extracts from Darwin's book "the Origin of the Species"
* Genetic Code Chart from http://www.indiana.edu/~ensiweb/lessons/psa.gc.pdf
* A clip from the BBC TV science documentary series ìLife" with David Attenborough she taped from television.
* Clips from the film " Creationî
* Her own original drawings and photographs of animals, trees and fauna
* Her own original quizzes, research, teaching notes and text about Darwin.
She plans to make 20 DVD copies of the resource to give to her students to use as part of the class group science project. She recently showed the resource at a Science Teacher conference. After the conference she was approached by an educational publisher who would like to publish and reproduce the resource.
Questions (to be answered by each group)
1. Identify the types of copyright works or other subject in the material she wants to use.
* (CB) Would Darwin's diaries still be covered by copyright? Copyright lasts the lifetime of the author plus 70 years, and since Darwin died in 1882, the works are likely to be out of copyright (unless of course the rights were bought by a publisher or someone else... even so, are the new copyright owners entitled to take the copyright beyond the 70 years? I don't know)
* The images of Darwin found on the Guardian website are unclear as to who owns the copyright. The Guardian itself makes a clain for copyright at the bottom of the page, but unless it actually owns the rights to the photos of Darwin (which I doubt) then that copyright symbol might be a little misleading. I can't see how they can claim the whole page as copyrighted if it contains images they don't own. I can't see any attribution for the images to another source. If Zanele wants to play it safe, there are images of Darwin on Wikipedia that are Creative Commons licenced that she could use with attribution.
* "On the Origin of Species" was published in 1859, so I have to assume that it is no longer covered by copyright since it was written long before the 70 year limit. Or do the rights pass to a publisher of the work? Also, does Australian copyright law apply here, since the work was no published in Australia?
* Re the Indiana Uni document, it's unclear as to whether it's under copyright, but there is an address on the website that one could write to ask permission just to be sure. For school use, I would guess that it would be safe to use the chart, but I think permission would be needed to include on a handout CD, and almost certainly for republishing commercially.
* The clips from the BBC doco and the Creation film may be ok to use with her class, depending on how much was used, and under what circumstances. It doesn't say in the scenario how much of the shows she used, but providing it wasn't taken in totality, she could probably show the clips in class with no problems. I think Zanele probably runs into big copyright issues when she puts these clips on a CD, since this format shift does not meet all the requirements, in particular rule 4 about not prejudicing the copyright owner by giving it away.
2. Identify the copyright owner for each category of work or other subject matter.
* Personal notebooks and diaries of Darwin, images and even "Origin" itself are all probably in the public domain, since they are old enough to predate the copyright statute of 70 years. Would need to check that the rights are not held by a publisher or museum.
* Genetic Code copyright for that particular document may be held by Indiana University, but they probably do not own any rights to the ideas or information which the document explains. Since copyright only protects the physical expression of the ideas and not the ideas themselves, it would not be difficult to make your own copy of the document based on the same information.
* The clips are probably owned by the BBC and the producers of Creation. You'd need to read the credits on each one to find out exactly who owns them.
* The original drawing and photographs, texts, puzzles and notes, etc, would be owned by Zanele , but since she has produced this work as part of her role as an employed teacher, the copyright passes to her employer. The school would hold copyright, but Zanele would still have some claim to the Moral Rights to the work. This means that Zanele would need to be credited as the creator of these works, although the school would have control over how they get used.
3. Identify which of the above works or other subject matter are still in copyright.
See the above answers for general responses that include answers to this question.
However, in relation to the films, I'm curious as to know who owns the copyright. If the copyright is held by the organisation (the BBC), then how does the "70 years beyond the authors death" rule apply? Also, the BBC copyrights may not fall under Australian Copyright law.
4. Is Zanele Dube's resource protected by copyright?
My guess is that Zanele surrenders her rights as a copyright owner to the school since she produced the work whil in their employ.
5. Does the Publisher need permission to reproduce the resource and/or any of the above included in the resource ?
I don't think the publisher will be able to reproduce (and presumably sell) the resource since it contains significant chunks of other people's work. The film clips will be particularly problematic. Although there are parts of this resource that are probably in the public domain, the school would own the copyright on the final product, not Zanele.
Summary:
This question points out what a minefield the copyright issue really is. In this simple resource intended to help her teach her students and share with other educators, we see the problems that arise from a mix of various rights holders and the complications that happen when interest in such a resource is picked up by a commercial entity. There is such a tangle of rights and permissions that it becomes near impossible to sort out who has the rights to what, and it is unlikely that the resource could be legally used in it's current form by almost anybody.
I'm hoping that the rest of my group will now add to some of the ideas I've raised here and extend them with further discussion.
By the way, I think this P2PU tool is hopelessly inadequate for these types of discussions! We need a proper wiki!
Questions to assist your understanding (not be answered)
1. What is copyright
2. What activities does copyright prohibit ?
3. Does copyright protect ideas or only expressions?
4. What requirements must a resource meet for copyright to apply?
5. What are the rights of authors/copyright owners?
6. Who owns copyright in employment situations?
7. What is the public domain? When does something enter the public domain?
Greetings
Good morning team. I will be working on the scenario on Tuesday of each week. I am part time and this is my day off. I work at a college in Geelong, Victoria and currently help run the library as well as teach year 12 English.I will spend some time now to re read the scenario and then I intend to complete a draft to at least one of the questions.
My contact details are:
mcgain.beverly.a@edumail.vic.gov.au
Skype name: baeccles
Beverly
Greetings
Good morning team,
I will be devoting time to this course on Tuesdays as this is my day off. I work at a school in Geelong, Victoria. I currently help run the library and teach year 12 English.
I have not found this site particularly easy to use but no doubt once we start everything will be clearer. The last message I attempted to post here did not save so this is a further attempt and communicating with you.
I intend to complete a draft to at least one of the questions this morning but which one?
My contact details are:
mcgain.beverly.a@edumail.vic.gov.au
Skype name: baeccles
I do not 'Twitter'!
Beverly
Test from Beverly
My mssge does not appear to save!
test reply
test reply
Hi Anne, good to hear from
Hi Anne, good to hear from you.
We have been using our Wikispaces account to work on the answers to htese questions. I see you have joined it, but haven't seen anything in the discussions from you. Let me know if you need a hand with getting anything started there. (chris@betcher.org)
Talk soon.
Chris
This forum
I see this forum is now "working" again (I use that term loosely). There are many multiple messages of mine from last week posted here, when I couldn't get it to post correctly I kept trying... my messages apparently backed up and then all came through when it started working again! Sorry!
I find the multi page view of the forum very disconcerting and when you post something it take you back to page 1, and you have no choice but to page through to the end again. VERY frustrating.
I move that we continue to use the wiki for all question and answer development.
P2PU people, the provided environment needs some serious work before it's usable.
Chris
access to wiki
Dear All,
I am having difficulty getting into the wiki. Can someone confirm that I have the right address. http://copyrightorange.wikispaces.com
Please reply to plowman.anne@gmail.com work email is Novell and not very reliable.
Thanks, Anne